1986 Olds Cultass Supreme Questions (Hellooooo Joe!!)

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  #1  
Old 07-02-02, 12:02 PM
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1986 Olds Cultass Supreme Questions (Hellooooo Joe!!)

Same car I was talking about earlier. I verified it on Carfax- clean title history and it showed several NC emissions tests- passed all. No blemishes on title. That in itself is worth a lot.


Anyhow, the guys have it up on the lube rack right now checking it out.

The engine badly needs a tune up and new plug wires and ignition cap. Oil change, of course, and probably a good motor flush. Shakes a little once it's warmed up.

Anyhow, I've noticed that once the car is on the road, the tranny is hesitant. If I romp the gas, not much happens for 3 or 4 seconds, then it downshifts into something more appropriate. I haven't had a chance to check all the fluids (took it to shop on my lunch break).

The guy is asking $2500 (has 103K miles on it- needs a new drivers window switch- new chrome rocker panel on front- and a little TLC on the seats) otherwise in decent shape. How does that sound? Edmunds.com sayed $1000 for it, Kelly said $2200. Go figure.
 
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Old 07-02-02, 04:00 PM
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Way too high.

Consider that my commuting partner bought a SPOTLESS 1983 Olds 98 out of Ohio for 3k through a fallen deal on Ebay. It has just under 50k and the car looks and runs brand new. It needed probably 500 bucks to be SPOTLESS.

You're talking a 1000 dollar to 1500 dollar car here. That's what I would pay and get it for around here in the tristate NYC area. I could go to PA and pick one up cheap or NJ where they have highway miles.
 
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Old 07-02-02, 10:00 PM
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It also depends on where you are. Around here, GA, cars like that sell for more than they would on a national average. $2500 for a clean car, working accessories, with that body style, and 100k is a little high, but close, in my neighborhood. That's asking price of course, and that is usually set a couple hundred bucks higher than accepting price. The cool looking cars keep value around here, even when a newer car can be had for less.
 
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Old 07-03-02, 04:45 AM
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I finally agreed on $1950, but only because of a few factors

1) Carfax showed a clean title history, no blemishes. Also, the mileage was checked nearly every year at NC vehicle emissions tests and you can see that the car simply wasn't driven a ton every year. Never failed emissions test.

2) The mechanics over at the shop I took it to all agreed that $2000 was a fair price after they inspected it. They found nothing wrong mechanically with the car. The carb, they said, was in superb shape. The engine will crank from a cold (summer cold) start almost immediatly.

3) Like cheese said, the cool body styles are often a bit more than the ugly ones. I am satisfied with the final price.




As far as the sluggish tranny, I'll drive it around for a week or two and see if it improves. I'm sure it set for a couple of months without a lot of driving going on. May even just need some tranny fluid.


BTW, this thing is a 4 bbl, does that mean it's probably a Quadrajet? Electronic? That Riviera I had was equipped with this electronic Quadrajet that nobody in the area would touch (IT needed some adjusting). I'm glad this one is in clean shape.
 
  #5  
Old 07-03-02, 05:15 AM
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I err on the side of caution.

The tranny should shift smoothly and operate without a hitch. If it doesn't it could have a bad tranny. What did the shop say about it? When was the last time it was serviced?

What that being said, again, the REAL CLEAN ones go for about 2500 to 3000, and I mean clean . You can get a high mileage car like that out of PA or NJ for that price and it will be in nice shape.

Yes, that year has an electronic Q-jet. Almost all GM carburetors starting with 1981 (excepting some trucks and export vehicles) have electronic Q-jets. Any mechanic that can't perfect those by now is living in the 1960's . The trick is finding a guy that is willing to work with it.
 
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Old 07-03-02, 05:57 AM
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<<<The trick is finding a guy that is willing to work with it.>>>

I believe that's the key right there. I know folks that could do it but they play stupid.

If I ever decide to get rid of it (when or if it goes bad) and put an Edelbrock or such, would it sacrifice anything if I went a similar output carb?
 
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Old 07-03-02, 07:55 AM
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Yes.

Driveability, emission control and performance. A fallacy is that a computer command carburetor cannot deliver performance. Bull biscuits. Another fallacy is that Rochesters can't be modded or aren't good carburetors. The fact is a Rochester in all ways for a street car (and most racing applications too) is far superior than any Holley, Eldelbrock or other "knockoff". I suggest you get Doug Roe's Q-jet book if you are hell bent on modifying your carburetor...however....

I will warn you that doing any souping up of a 307 is a collosal waste of time and money. It's an emission motor and doesn't respond well to mods. Leave it as is, and drive it for what it is...a luxo boat .
 

Last edited by Joe_F; 07-03-02 at 10:20 AM.
  #8  
Old 07-03-02, 11:41 AM
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I live in NYC and just (3 weeks) ago bought a 93 Buick Century with a almost perfect body, got a door ding, 73,000 miles, air, a real good radio/cassette, air, 6 cylinder engine pw/ pl/ ps/pb etc and spent $1500 on the car. I then put in a solenoid in the trans ($288) an alternator ($92) a fan switch. 2 hours and $5 in materials, changed all fluids, hoses and belt under $100. So for about $2,000 I have a newer fully serviced car that I expect to run at least another 100,000 miles Cars today are flooding the market and are dirt cheap. It's a buyers market. Unless you absolutely love the car, either pass or offer much less.
 
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Old 07-03-02, 11:56 AM
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Thanks easywind- great advise.

As far as this car goes, though, ask Joe. I honestly think that a Cutlass like this is one of the more solid built cars ever. (And prettiest IMO).

If I can get a pic soon I'll post it. $1950 was the final price. I honestly think that this was a fair price considering the clean carfax info and the great report from the mechanic shop on it.
To all his own, I guess. I have a friend that spent $30,000 on a Harley. I thought he was insane considering he drives a car that would retail under $3k and a house that would retail under $40K. But, to him, $30K was a fair price for the ultimate convertible!
 
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Old 07-03-02, 02:24 PM
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Doug Roe !!!

Haven't heard that name in years. I had a couple of his Doug Roe's books back in the 70's, while Quads were still mechanical. I was amazed at just how sophisticated Rochesters were. Was living in East Texas back then, and had people coming from miles around to let me work on them because most of the pros wanted to replace immediately with Holly or Carter "equivalent". They got a bad rep, but who with any sense can argue with the spread bore design for a street vehicle?

Of course, with the old mechanicals, you could do a few things that would really improve few mileage, driveability, and performance without getting into too much trouble. Had a '74 Cutlass with the Olds V-8, which was a great engine. Finally screwed up and got rid of it after about five years so I could get one of the original 262 CID diesels in a Cutlass. Bad !!!!

You're right on with this one, Joe.
 
  #11  
Old 07-05-02, 04:55 AM
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A relief.....

OK, I have something I have to post on the Blunders forum, will post later. It involves me installing a Grant steering wheel and me forgetting to remove the battery cable, and blowing the horn in a noise-making 4th of July fashion. Neighbors must've thought I was an idiot.


The relief-

The Cutlass is considerably quicker than the old Riviera (lighter?). Once I changed the oil and filter, added a little Transmedic to the tranny, and changed the filthy air filter, it ran a lot stronger. I haven't even gotten to the plugs, wires, cap, and rotor yet (I thinks I'll pay someone else to do that- looks like a pain in the rump).



Thanks for the advice folks!!!!!
 
  #12  
Old 07-05-02, 05:27 AM
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Nah Mako, the plugs are easy to do on that car.

Most are accessed through the top. Get yourself a good variety of extensions, rachets and sockets. You probably already have them.

For the inaccessible ones (near the air pump for example), jack up the car high enough to separate the body and frame. Support it properly.

Fold away the rubber splash guard and walah, the plugs are staring you in the face. Use a long extension and just whip them right out. Use a spark plug boot from an old wire (take out the metal terminal) to use as a guide to thread them in.

As for the cap and rotor, remove one wire at a time. What I do is put the new wires on the old cap first on the car. Then, one by one , I match the positions of the wires and remove them. Put the rotor on, the cap over it, and done.

All told, you're looking at 3 hours at most for an inexperienced guy. I have whipped them out in an hour but I like to take my time.

You can do it .
 
  #13  
Old 07-05-02, 07:48 AM
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For the inaccessible ones (near the air pump for example), jack up the car high enough to separate the body and frame. Support it properly.

Fold away the rubber splash guard and walah, the plugs are staring you in the face. Use a long extension and just whip them right out. Use a spark plug boot from an old wire (take out the metal terminal) to use as a guide to thread them in.


Lol, there's where ya lost me. I certainly could do that, and may even enjoy doing it, but I've battered myself enough the past few days working on that car and other things (like my nephews pickup- an old F150 looks awesome with 31X10.5's on it- yes those were the tires on my truck).


I have some friends that I owe a favor (a mech shop). They scoured over the car for me for free, where most places charge for that. Plus, other than tuneup they found nothing major wrong other than typical oil creep around seals. I'll pay them to do it for me and I'll spend Saturday with the Mrs. That's a DIY project for sure I tell ya (and almost as fun)!
 
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Old 07-05-02, 08:15 AM
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Nah, I'll be impressed when they go back to rear wheel drive full size vehicles again. Until then, they will continue to let Ford eat their lunch with regard to fleet sales and taxis .
 
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Old 07-08-02, 05:34 AM
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A few questions.....

After having the vehicle for a few days and putting a few miles on it, I've come up with.....



1) New plugs, wires, dist. cap and rotor and oil change really perked up the engine.

My next step is to replace the O2 sensor and fuel filter. I noticed the fuel filters, according to the computer at WalMart, the fuel filter is this tiny thing about the size of your thumb. Can that be right? If so, where would I find it????


2) Had the front shocks replaced, but the exhaust is in the way of adding the HiJackers rear air shocks until I put a new exhaust. I'll make sure the muffler place routes the exhaust out of the way. I can get a decent deal on dual flowmasters (mainly for the growl as they really don't perk the performance).

What I've noticed is a vibration that seems to come from the rear at highway (50+ mph) speed. It doesn't always do it, but the highway I noticed it on was a brand new paved interstate (ie, smooth). Either those rear shocks are REALLY bad, or one of the rear tires needs balancing. Shouldn't this car ride as smooth as ice? Other than the vibration, it generally does.


Thanks for your help guys!!!

Mako
 
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Old 07-08-02, 05:46 AM
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Hi,

The filter is inside the carburetor. Remove the fuel line and then take out the large nut. The filter and spring will fall out. Use a quality filter such as a GF471 from Delco. It has a check valve and is made of better paper. Make sure to put the fitting on straight and don't cross thread it. Use a flare wrench to tighten the fuel line to avoid rounding it off. Sears sells nice flare wrenches for probably 30 bucks a set.

As for the tires/shocks, yes replace both front and rear as complete units. You don't need air shocks, if the car sags in the rear it needs springs, not shocks.

You can rotate your tires front to back. If the problem goes away and now exhibits itself in the front, you have a bent rim or an out of balance wheel/bad tire.
 
  #17  
Old 07-08-02, 07:41 AM
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Great advice- thanks Joe!!!!! The tire rotation thing is a great idea. Never thought of that. I would have paid them to balance the tires just to see if it works. You just saved me $15+!!!


As far as the rear sag, the front sagged a lot too, but now asserts itself nicely with the new shocks (the only reason the front ones were done first was because the exhaust was in the way to install the air shocks).

I chose air shocks for the simple reason that #1 I had them on the Riviera and loved them (I like adjustable stuff) and #2 I will occasionally put a heavy load of water in the trunk (carrying RO/DI water and salt water for my aquariums in 5-10 gallon buckets). Not enough to overload the car but enough to justify the air shocks.

Do you have a pic of a flare wrench? My dad has a ton of tools in the garage and he probably has a set of them, and since he passed away last Sept I can't ask him what is what. That's how I wound up with the R12 can.
 
  #18  
Old 07-08-02, 09:00 AM
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The head of a flare wrench is shaped like a stop sign (octagonal).

If you want to see a good picture, go to www.sears.com and type in "flare wrench" in the search box and you'll see wrenches and sets of flare wrenches. You can blow up the picture and see what you find.

I too inherited my dad's tools when he passed away, as well as my uncle's tools...believe it or not, my other uncle wanted to throw everything out, but my uncle had some good tools...including a 100 dollar crow's foot set I was going to buy anyhow!

When you use those tools to repair your machines, thoughts of that loved one come back...you know they are happy that you are using their stuff for a good cause !
 
  #19  
Old 07-08-02, 10:05 AM
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Anytime I see a Ford Pickup, I think of my Dad. He like Chevy too, but for some reason he always bought Ford. I guess he knew how to work on them more than the Chevy.

He showed me a lot about car maintenence (oil change, spare tire change, plug and plug wire change, etc..., the basics). Unfortunately I never watched him really dig into one of his machines. He rebuilt engines occasionally, and I would rather have played Nintendo. Now, I can whoop anyone's butt on Final Fantasy but I couldn't rebuild a carburator for nothing. Hell I can't even adjust one.


If anyone young is reading, who still haves their papa or someone as a father figure (be it brother, neighbor, etc...) who is skilled, learn as much as you can and ask them if you can handle some of the repairs on your own. And enjoy it. Stay away from the TV. Hellmonster.

Sorry for the eulogy.... *sniff*
 

Last edited by mako; 07-08-02 at 10:31 AM.
  #20  
Old 07-08-02, 10:46 AM
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Words well said Mako.
 
  #21  
Old 07-08-02, 11:18 AM
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I tried to email you there Joe but can't, so I'll publicly embarrass you.

I just wanted to thank you for ALL of your help lately, all the way from the bad fuel filter on my recently deceased C1500, to the air conditioning info, to the recent help in my brand-spanking new old olds cutlass. I'm just hoping that the old Cutty doesn't keep me posting relentlessly on this forum!

You have saved me some cash on more than one occasion and this forum has been probably the best one yet.

I have yet to see you spark a fuss at anyone, and considering your credentials, you very well could tell us to bugger off when we disagree with what you say (which isn't often from what I see).

My wife and I agreed to send you roses and chocolates, but, well you know how the story goes.... I didn't have time because I had to wash my car.....


Mako
 

Last edited by mako; 07-08-02 at 12:21 PM.
  #22  
Old 07-08-02, 11:42 AM
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Thanks Mako, and you're welcome.

You have the other fine folks on this forum (they are numerous) to thank as well. They make the site what it is as much as I do. That's what it's all about. If we can help someone it makes our life that much more enriched...some day we might need it too.



I accept personal checks, credit cards, cash, 2nd generation Trans Am parts, quality U.S. made old tools and accessories, etc.

Lol.
 
  #23  
Old 07-10-02, 12:19 PM
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OK- changed the fuel filter last night. The flare wrenches were a big help. It just stinks that Sears didn't have a metric/standard set avail, all they had was seperate sets for $25 each.

The old fuel filter was so dark brown and brittle (crumbled it with my fingers) I'm surprised the carb got anything at all to it. Engine now idles VERY smoothly. Thanks for your help again!!!

Couple more (I'm gonna have to pay you guys salary....)

1) While I was doing this, I broke a small pencil-sized black hose that was connected to some metal plug that screwed into the top of the engine (the block?). The hose ran over to the passenger side of the car, near the headlight, into this fist-sized plastic ball. Another line ran from that ball over to some valve looking thing near the carb and line that I broke. Fortunately, I just cut off the rotted broken part of the hose and reconnected the fresh cut to the plug thing. What the heck was that? Car runs fine.

2) Can the gas pedal be adjusted? It is so low that I have to almost stand on the pedal to get it to go into passing gear.

3) Never mind- I know the answer to this one. I found the O2 sensor on this one- on the top of the exhaust pipe as it comes from the engine bay. The lead wire that comes from it goes so far up into the engine bay that I can't find the connection to remove the wire and add the new one. I'm gonna have someone who has lube racks do it b/c I can't get my fat arm up in there to find it while laying on a creeper. Sucks......


Thanks,
Mako
 
  #24  
Old 07-10-02, 06:46 PM
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The "softball" is the vacuum reserve tank for the vents and such.

Go through EVERY vacuum line on it and replace them all. 307's cook the lines and they rot out. The car will thank you and run THAT MUCH better .

Get all the size lines: Rolls of 1/4, 7/32, 5/32, 3/8, 5/16 (all the rolls run you under 50 bucks and you'll have a life time supply of each). Use the old one as a guide and a sharp razor and cut and replace them one at a time. When I got my 79 Trans Am I fixed all the lines and put them all back correctly and what a world of difference!

Lisle and other tool companies make a special socket to get out the O2 sensor. I use a 7/8 open end wrench and comes right out. Enough room on my 84 Olds to do that. The Cutlass with the V8 is a bit tighter but can be done.

Sounds like a really dirty fuel filter .

P.S. Go to Sears' website and join the Craftsman Club. When they run programs, you get a 10% discount, even on sale stuff. I time my purchases there around these deals and they are good. It's free.

Yours truly was featured in the March 2002 Craftsman newsletter with a 1960 Craftsman mechanic's rollaway toolbox that I found at an estate sale for 50 bucks and totally restored .
 
  #25  
Old 07-11-02, 04:47 AM
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Thanks. I bought a Haynes manual for my car just to help out when I can't get to this board and it's been worth the $15. Hopefully it will also tell me where to find all the vent lines and stuff. I'll work on replacing them when time permits!

Thanks for the Craftsman tip- will look into it!

Mako
 
  #26  
Old 07-11-02, 09:40 AM
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The emission decal under the hood will also show you where all the lines go if you want to verify that. Otherwise replace them one at a time and you should be fine.
 
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