The Mazda Dispute:...To Joe_F and julesgue

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Old 07-22-02, 02:36 PM
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Cool The Mazda Dispute:...To Joe_F and julesgue

Alright I have to be a mediator. It apears to me that 1. Joe has never driven and RX-7, and 2. julesgue has never driven American Muscle. I personally own a 1983 RX-7 and it runs amazing, fun, quick, reliable, cheap etc. etc., Anyone who can honestly say that RX-7's are no good have never driven one, and if they have, then it must have been by some freak of nature that they didn't like it, because they are a blast. To argue the other side, American Muscle is unparalled. Nothing but Raw Power. It is quite obvious that julesgue has never driven a Cutlass 442, Nova, Chevelle, Charger, Malibu, 440 Hemi...(just to name a very small few), or any thing along those lines, because I truly believe that they would not be arguing about this. Anyways the moral of my story is that both RX-7's and any American Muscle car's are all amazing, I speak from experiance having owning an RX-7 and also from driving many, many american muscles. All I want to say is, don't knock it untill you try it...You both may be suprised.
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Old 07-22-02, 05:40 PM
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Very good points made on both fronts.

One point of clarification: I have driven MANY Mazda RX7s, including the year you own (My neighbor had one he bought new). I also have driven the later generation ones, as well as 1982 (like yours....same body style through 1985).

On the whole: tinny, cheap, prone to rot, crude (Toyota had FI, the early RX7's used Nikki 4 bbl carbs, very lackluster), expensive to fix (parts are a mint if you want good stuff). Very unimpressive as I have stated before. It also goes to show when Mazda drops the ball that early that it wasn't any good for the long haul as the others stayed on a lot longer. But, that's OK, it's my .02 as I've stated before. A Toyota Supra Turbo will wipe the floor with it and run all day and 10 years later you will STILL have Toyota reliability. Toyota and Honda outsell Mazda for a reason .

So besides the clarification that I HAVE driven RX7s (as well as many other sports cars), I am still unimpressed with it, as well as their grocery getters too. Toyota makes a far superior vehicle and their sales show it All those people that bought Toyotas (and made them the best sellers over the years) can't be wrong.

In closing, we don't have to agree on everything, but we can all get along and help each other solve problems. I've had exposure to all sorts of makes and models (including grey markets) and I can tell you that to me, Mazda "ain't" one of the top quality jobs in the Japanese realm.

My two pieces of Wampum and I'm sticking to it! Lol.
Old 07-23-02, 07:17 AM
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Well it's hard to believe that a comment on Joe's dislike of Mazda's in his posts to help people with their car problems has turned into an arguement on American Muscle vs grocerygetters!Hehe! American muscle...hmmmm......74 Camaro 350. bored 40 over, over sized pistons...350,000 first car. Yes, I've driven and own and no where did I say they were 'old heaps'
they will always be classics. No arguement here. I just love my 7.
Saved my last one from the junk yard. Went to look at it for the seats to use in the 87. Owner was told it needed an engine and was selling it to the local scrap yard. It was perfect, no rust, no body damage immaculate interior. For $400, what he wanted for the seats, we bought the whole car, towed it home, popped in a new set of NGks and we're off to the races. That was 2 years ago and no problems. What most people consider problems with the RX-7s is just lack of understanding and rightfully so. They are different and let's face it, all cars have their quirks. The first gen 7s were especially troublesome in a few areas but most were easily fixed. The second gen, all 3 of mine were less problematic until the turbo came along. Again, a little patience and knowledge goes a long way. The third gens are awsome, still looking for one.

Pettit racing in Lauderdale developed a 20b 3 rotor application for the 3 gens that pushes 550hp at 7500rpm. Top speed 240 and will do a quarter mile in 11.2. What can I say, I like the RX-7s regardless of their sales history. They're different and I like different.
Old 07-23-02, 09:08 AM
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Here's a newsflash for ya:

I help everyone that posts here. To the tune of 9300+ posts. When you've done that here, for free, on your own time, we'll talk shop I think anyone here can attest to that.

The bottom line is that no one is disputing your claim about Mazda. Anything can be made to run. I could take a Honda Civic and make it outrun your RX7. Or a Pontiac, or a Chevy, etc, etc. All it takes is time, money, and the know how. There's always one guy faster.

Out of the box, the RX7 was lackluster. It was problem ridden, it rotted out, it was strange and in turn, the sales were quite low. Mazda dropped it for the product line for good reason..yet the Mustangs, Firebirds/Camaros and even sports cars from the other makes went on a lot longer and outsold the Mazda by epic proportions Makes you wonder if it was such a good thing, why it was dropped so fast . That's what I'm saying. If it's good, it lasts. Period.

There are guys out there that swear Diesel GM's are the best things since sliced bread. Sure, if you spend enough time with anything, I'll make it reliable too. On the whole the engine is a bomb. It requires you to go through unconventional methods to make it run great. Hardly reliable to most unless you make it your life's quest to work on them.

No one is telling you to not like your Mazda. However, saying that they are reliable is YOUR opinion, and goes against conventional wisdom as well as data on them as well. Remember, most Japanese automakers imitate quite well, they don't invent.

The Rotary engine in your Mazda, is as I call not of Mazda design. It was purchased from another company (the design) which was German. So, Mazda didn't "invent" anything .

Again my .02. I will continue to help anyone that asks about anything from a Yugo to a Rolls Royce, throwing in some good wit along for the ride.

I depart this post as your friend here, but if you want to make it your foe, I can guarantee you'll lose that battle. It's been tried here before to no avail.

There's no time on this forum for games. Too many folks to help. I think you'll agree....
Old 07-23-02, 07:21 PM
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Informational Purposes only!! Do not reply!!! Let this dog die!!!

the design of the engine in question is the desgn of Felix Wankel hence the name Wankel Rotory engine, theoretically thought to be the worlds most perfect engine.....theoretically.... admittedly a very unique engine to learn about and see how it works, nothing like your used to. check it out!!!
Old 07-23-02, 07:26 PM
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Good information.....true, it's a strange one alright....and Mazda copied it/refined it, but didn't create it Hence an imitator, not an orginator. Big difference.

We'll kill off this post now, as this is not the place to expend bandwidth on this subject .

Post is closed.
Old 07-23-02, 11:43 PM
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Just to clarify

Mazda stopped importing the RX-7 for the same reason that Toyota stopped importing the Supra Turbo & Nissan stopped importing the 300ZX. HIGH TARRIFFS! Mazda had the additional burden of trying to make the relatively dirty rotary engine meet increasingly stringent emission standards. Mazda managers didn't see the sense in dumping a ton of R&D money a relatively low-volume car, even if it was their premium performance model.
Old 07-24-02, 07:26 AM
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Couldn't make the grade

Whereas everyone else continued to offer performance. As I recall the RX-7 dropped out in 1995. If the car makes money, you still offer it. The RX-7 was a money sucker for Mazda and they pitched it.

The F car stops this year. The Corvette continues, Ford has the Mustang. Pontiac has the GTO coming through Holden. If it can't sell, it won't make it .

Enough on this subject . Everyone has their opinions and no one's looking to change anyone's opinion.

But the data is what it is. Post is closed
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