German Shepherd trouble! (Merged Thread)

Hi,
Thanks for your caring words- ... and the info on the collar!
I've never heard of this before... I will DEFINITELY give it a try! Why not?
AND- also re: Cesar Milan... sometimes I wonder if for his show they only want dogs they KNOW will improve???
But, maybe he could still evaluate Deacon?
I'd give anything for that.
Believe it or not- he was just FINE with the 4th of July fireworks and thunder, etc... his only flaw (big one) is fear aggression and terrible shedding!
He does have a lot of skin rashes- but mostly on his under- carriage as I call it. Poor guy's uncomfortable a lot which I'm sure makes him irritable too... (yes, we've seen top Dermatologists too) He's on Benadryl and off & on Prednisone...
Anyways- it's worth a shot and if it irritates his skin- I'll stop it.
I will let you know how it works out!
Thanks again.
Debbie.

 

Debbie, you are so very welcome. I just realized that I forgot to mention something when I posted before. You had noted that Deacon seemed to have a good reaction to your brother. Has your brother tried working with Deacon on his fear issues?

I have a blind rescue that is petrified of fireworks and thunderstorms (long story about her). We happen to live near where the fireworks are in our town, so we put music on fairly loud last night. That didn't help so I used my voice of authority in talking to her and gave her many chest thumps to calm her. She stopped shaking, but when my hubby started in that 'oh my, you poor baby' voice she started trembling again. It was so obvious to us both. He switched to the same tone of voice I was using and she calmed down. Maybe that could work for Deacon as well when he's frightened. I used the same technique of the voice and chest thumping with petrified dogs in NOLA that wouldn't come out of their crates and it worked there too. Yeah, I had to crawl in the crates to do the chest thumping, but I didn't look them in the eyes for more then a split second and stayed on my hands and knees the whole time I was outside the crate as well. Have you tried anything like this?

Newt

 

Hi,
Sorry in the delay- I moved last week and it's been hectic.
I asked the Vet about the phermone collar and she'd never heard of it- therefore figured it probably wouldn't be effective.
I haven't tried it yet...
As for having my brother help out with him getting used to strangers~ that's a great idea. Deacon's doing much better on his walks as long as we keep moving forward when we come upon other dogs/kids/people or whatever... I give him a quick "pop" and the "heel" command as soon as there's any indication he's focusing on the object and not on "me or the walk". So far- pretty good. But the impulse is still there.
He isn't timid (like the type who wouldn't come out of his crate)
He's more the I'll chew my way out to attack somebody~ but he doesn't truly want a confrontation- just a show of strength- I think...He quiets down as soon as the immediate "threat" has passed.
He's done well in the fenced yard (hasn't tried to jump it yet) doesn't bark a lot- but watches everything like a stalker.
*I will see if my brother's willing to help out on some of his walks or maybe try getting some volunteers to come over while he's visiting and see what happens... (it is hard to find volunteers with a "mean" 90lb GSD! Family included.

 

Congratulations on your new home! I thought about you the other day when I made arrangements to visit my daughter tomorrow. She has the 3 GS dogs. Sounds like you are on the road to getting some balance with him. I do hope your brother will be able to lend some time to the effort. I know you've watched Cesar and I'm wondering if now might be a good time to add a small back pack with a couple bottles of water to the walks. Give him something else to concentrate on and keep him moving forward.

Newt

 

I am so sorry to hear about what you and your dog are going through.

I have read through the whole thread, and I don't recall seeing anyone mention anything about establishing yourself as the pack leader with this dog.

It sounds to me like he doesn't feel you are the Alpha, and he's assumed the role in the pack. That would expalin why he seems uneasy, all the time. It sounds to me like he's like that because he feels he has to always be "on" because it's his job to protect the pack and their environment.

Keeping the dog on a leash all the time is a great idea...taking this type of dog to a dog park is not. I just do not like the idea of dog parks. For submissive dogs they're fine, but for a dog that feels he is Alph they are a horror. The pack mentality in dogs runs STRONG, and in a dog park that is essentially what it is, a pack of dogs that are constantly trying to establish their rank in the park. I would stop taking him there. Dogs are like people and will not get along with every dog they meet, and its wrong of us to expect that they will. They don't need to be friends with every dog they meet. And you can't expect them to be.

If the dog doesn't feel you and EVERY member of your family is above him in rank, there will be problems.

There are a tonne of things that you can do to establish this that doesn't involve negative methods.

Do not let the dog run ahead of you up the stairs..the pack leader always goes first, no matter what. If he does it, tell him no (do not yell, do not even raise your voice, just a clam maybe a little bit drawn out no)and make him come back down the stairs and follow behind you. This is why its a good idea to have him on the leash in the house, its easier to make the correction with it on. Do not let the dog out the door before you. Make him sit & stay, open the door..if he tries to rush out ahead of you, again, a firm no, and make him come back in and sit & stay...open the door again...and keep doing this until he gets the idea that he has to stay there until you give him the command to release him. Make him follow a command for every treat or anything that you can think of. If he's one of those dogs that lays his head on our lap for a ear scratch don't automatically scratch his ears, make him sit and them scratch his ears, want to scratch his belly..make him "down" first then scratch his belly. Dinner time...put him in a sit-stay and don't let him break it until you tell him its' ok.

Honestly, alot of this sounds to me like your guy just doesn't see you as the leader...and you need to establish that so that he can relax and understand that he doesn't have to worry about protecting himself and everyone else in the pack, that you will do that, that its your job, not his.

Alot of people are going to think this sounds nuts, but don't forget, dogs do not think like we do.....and although the little things i mentioned might sound insignificant to you, mean something different to the dog.

I've had my dog for 9 months now, he's a rescue dog (part border collie & husky...about 80 lbs)and I still make him do the sit stay at dinner, and i will always make him do it...matter of fact I don't even have to tell him to do it, he automatically sits when i bring his food over, i put the bowl down and he waits there until I say "ok"...the pack leader lets the other members know when its their turn to eat.

When I first got Tucker...he was a dominant dog that only wanted to fight with other dogs. He would rush fences that had dogs in the back yard, hackles up, snarling and acting like it was the devil himself back there. He didn't care the size of the dog, he just had this burning desire to establish dominance on any and every dog, even if the dog wasn't close to us. The minute he spotted one his hackles went up and he would growl. Heaven fobid there was a dog off leash somewhere we were and the owner couldn't control the dog and i didn't spot him until it was too late. But now, after showing Tucker that I was the leader and would take care of any threatening dogs (usually by just scaring the other dog away)all the posturing, growling etc is gone. He'll look at the other dog and go about his business...he know's and trust that I won't let any harm come to him. Mind you, I still keep him on and extended long line when we're out..that way I know I have control of him in any situation.

sorry, i know this is a long winded post, but I would hate to see you give up on this dog...it seems like you have a very very strong attachment to him and would like to try anything you can to keep him and make him into the type of dog you want.

Check out the site...and good luck and don't give up on him!!!
If you ever get frustrated and need some encouragement or have a question i might be able to help with.

Wendy

***MODERATOR'S NOTE: ALL TOPICS SHOULD BE KEPT ON THE FORUM TO BENEFIT ALL MEMBERS. ***

 

Thank you guys for your input and ideas...
I am trying to implement more of the Dog Whisperer stuff and I've been making the dog (as you mentioned) not rush out ahead of me, wait in the car BEFORE I let him out, Sit for his WATER. (his appetite's not hardy)
Here's the weird thing and what's hard to train about him because neither his regular food OR affection is a big deal to him! SO- he rarely comes over to be patted and though he will SIT prior to getting his dinner- he usually sniffs it and walks away only to go back later OR right before we go out for a walk- very neurotic acting. (and yes we've tried various dogfoods)
I was wondering if you guys think I should take his food UP if he doesn't eat within 15" and then let him go hungry and therefore when he IS FED- he'll see ME as the provider.
He's pretty much one nose ahead of me on our walks and I can't seem to get him behind me now matter how many pops I give him. He knows HEEL well- but that's his position.
So, I think it's true he believes HE has to be the leader and really doesn't want to be- he is confused and I'm failing at protecting him since people DO let their dogs off leash and he's had a few bad incidents where several dogs kind of ganged up on him (not in a harmful way- just sniffing, etc) but it SCARED the hell out of him and he ran tail b/t his legs all the way back to the car (without ME) He doesn't look to me for help.
This was a long time ago. I can't have him off leash anymore at all/EVER. I don't play tug of war with him and he didn't sleep in my bed until just last year- all things my Trainer advised against- I followed to the letter. (and again- he seems to care less where he sleeps anyways) So, he's not protective of the bed or me in it. I don't have my boyfriend anymore but he didn't get possessive of the bed (our Rottweiler did but he's not here anymore) HE knew how to make Deacon submissive with just Eye contact. Not me.
He's improving though which is GREAT. He just doesn't like people/dogs much. I agree that we shouldn't expect all dogs to get along~ there's a lot of unbalanced dogs out there (mine included)
I'd just like to have people over without having to crate him or put him out in the yard. I want to TRUST him.
*Funny I was just thinking about the backpack thing yesterday too!!! I'm definitely gonna rig him up like a Llama!
He really does prefer to have something to do- he's easily bored even in the yard (he'll start digging) But I can only throw the tennis ball like 100 times ya know??? He likes sticks too.
He's like a video game that never shuts off unless he's asleep.
He's pushing at my arm now cuz i've been online for like an hour.
I have no idea what he wants- just attention I guess...or a cookie- he's relentless!
Chat soon,
Deb

 

You're right on with the food issue....if he doesn't eat it within 20 minutes, you should be removing it and he doesn't get any until the next day. I know how unfair that seems but unfortunately if he's choosing to eat when he wants...thats another sign that he's thinking he's pack leader. The leader says when the other dogs eat...if they don't eat when they're allowed, they go hungry until the next day. He'll catch on, and trust me...it's not going to hurt him at all to not eat one day.
As for him not being interested in food for training, I know that alot of trainers will use people food for that purpose if the dog is just not interested in normal treats. Hot dogs work well, if that doesn't work try anything that he gets excited about, be it chicken, cheese, liver etc etc. And just use that treat for training and training only. Don't give Deacon that food at any other time other than when you're training. And don't worry about him having too much people food, just cut up the treats into small pieces and they'll be fine. If he is really un-interested in his normal food and you're worried about it..there's a product that you can get at any grocery store that's kind of like a gravy but has added vitamins and supplements that you can add to his food to make it a bit more appetizing to him. Don't keep switching foods, he'll learn to eat whats given to him.

Once a dog has been threatened by other dogs with you around he will be confused as to wether or not you're the leader. Thats the leaders job...protecting the pack and removing any threats. I know it's hard if there's more than one dog...thats why I think you shouldn't be taking him to the dog parks...at all. I will never take Tucker to a dog park, because I know that the dominace issue in him is strong and he will fight if there's more than one dog around and I can't control the situation...it would kind of being setting him up to fail if i put him in a situation that I know is going to be hard for him to deal with. Always set your dog up to succeed, not fail.
Take him for a walk somewhere that the chances of you coming across another unleashed dog is minimal...at least for now. And if you do come across an unleashed dog coming towards you....chase it off. It may look and sound stupid, and the owner of the other dog may think you're being mean, but don't worry about it and just ignore them....but you have to show Deacon that he doesn't have anything to worry about....that he doesn't have to protect himself...that you will do it. Usually a good "go" yelled at the other dog will help. And always step in front of your dog if another dog comes close...it will help prove that you're pack leader by doing that, not only to Deacon, but to the other dog coming your way, an Alpha dog is always in front of the subordinate dog, and the dog coming at you will see that and it will more than likely stop him from coming too close, or at least slow it down. Don't be afraid to mean to the other dog. I don't mean hitting, but do anything in your means to scare that other dog away. And I mean any dog....be it a little one or big one. For now, you need to keep his social contact with other dogs minimal until he has the confidence in you that he needs. If you scare just ONE dog away while Deacons there, he will look at you in a whole different light. Try to keep him distracted while another dog is around, and also try to be as calm as you can around him with another dog around...they read alot from our body language, and if your calm and act like the other dog isn't a threat, he'll read that and learn to act the same way.
Since he's had a couple of bad experiences with other dogs, it's going to take alot of work for him to accept them, just be prepared that he many never accept other dogs....and like I said before, it's unfair to ask or force him to accept them.
One nose ahead of you on a walk is fine....he doesn't have to stay behind you, its the pulling that you don't want...but as long as he's beside you and not pulling on the lead to be ahead...he's doing good. The reason that he's not looking to you for help is because he's learned that you won't help him. I am not trying to be mean, but right now he's got it in his head that he's got to protect himself because you already failed him in that area. Please don't take that the wrong way. I am not saying it to be mean or hard on you. Trust me, I had the same problem with Tucker when I got him.
So try as hard as you can to avoid all dog parks, and you may have to do that for the rest of his life. Dogs have a great memory....and one bad instance will stick in their mind for a long long time.
As for the people in the house....I do believe this will all go away once you've established yourself as leader. You shouldn't have to crate him every time. Try to make it enjoyable when people are around. Let them your guests) have treats on them and give them to Deacon....but only if he's doing something acceptable.
Have them just ignore him at first(no petting, no eye contact, nothing)...let him get used to them being there. If he's growling at them, you need to correct him for it...with a leash correction or a "NO"....as soon as he stops the growling give him a treat (one of the ones he goes nuts for) he has to learn that growling at any human that you have allowed in the house is NOT acceptable. If he goes over to smell or sniff one of the guests..let him...and have them give him a treat for doing it, if he doesn't growl, if he growls while doing it he gets a correction from you, and when he stops growling you have your guest give him a treat. But no petting from the guest, no eye contact etc etc......they shouldn't even acknowledge that he's there at all, just treats for now. Just have them give it to him or a few at one time so that that little light bulb goes on in his head...STRANGERS = TREATS. Soon he'll learn that guests are just treat giving machines, and he'll come around. If you give a correction and he still growls your correction didn't get through to him and possibly wasn't hard enough. I am not sure but I think you said he was a bit submissive so just a verbal correction should be do the trick, but if he doesn't stop, you need to do a leash correction. That is why you should have him on a leash in the house so that you have control all the time. Don't get frustrated and put him away....thats counter productive and will just show him that if he growls at something....its going to go away, thus in his mind GROWLING = IT GOES AWAY...thats what you don't want. And whatever you do, do not try to calm him down by touching him or petting or stroking him...that is a big NO NO. That he will take as a form of praise, and you don't want that. Keep him by you all the time, if you leave the room he goes with you, again its pack mentality...if the pack leader moves...the whole pack moves..no questions asked. I actually tethered Tucker to me for the first month of his life in the house so he was close enough to me to make a correction if he needed it. Have those special treats on you at all times so you can re-inforce any good behaviour that you see in him. Lying down quietly....tell him thats good and give him a treat...so now he'll think LYING QUIETLY = GOOD THINGS. And do little short training sessions all the time..that will also enforce your status. He has to do what you say, when you say it...not when he wants to.
You mentioned he was nudgeing you while you were at the computer, thats another Leader issue, if you respond to him doing that, you're doing what he wants when he wants you to. Again, thats the pack leader role. Do not respond to him when he does that, or if you do want to pet him make him sit first, or lie down...make him do something so that he gets the picture that you will pet him but only when you want to, not when he wants it. Trust me, I know it's hard to do, nothing is cuter than your dog putting his head in your lap and looking up at you waiting to be scratched, but until you've established you're the leader...don't do it.

Most dogs don't want the potition of pack leader...its a lot of work and alot of pressure for a dog.

Sorry, again for the long winded post...


Wendy

ps, sorry I had to add that you said he's digging in the backyard, and that is definately a sign that he is bored and isn't being worn out enough. A tired dog is a good dog. If you have to throw the ball 100 times, throw it 100 times or throw it 50 times and then get him out for a walk...or just know that Obedience training tires out a dog more than exercise does. 20 minutes of obedience training will tucker him out because he has to think during these session, as well as do something physical. So you can maybe do some obedience training first then take him out for a walk. Obedience training doesn't end once your dog knows the commands...you should have daily sessions & refresher courses throughout the dogs life..it keeps them on their toes!!!
Good luck Deb, don't give up!!!!

 

Good thread!! Glad you are taking the time and putting in the effort to help your dog. Too many people in this world think of pets as disposable. I have a special needs german sheppard who we adopted about three years ago now. Kobi has spinebifita and epilepsy and is medicated twice a day to control his seizures. He is the second german sheppard I have had and neither of them had any aggression issues. I have only met one which did and I thought that was the owners fault and not the dog's. After reading through your thread I believe that your dogs temperment may have alot to do with his discomfort with his skin condition as well as he may just be a little protective of you. I would shop around for a new vet and see if you can find somebody who can treat the skin issue. I would also put him on flaxseed oil to help his skin and coat. He may also benifit from having a second dog in the home. It would give him a dog to be lower on the pecking order than him and will keep him company through out the day when you are not around. I would not get a puppy, but you might consider adopting a dog which is the same age and size. Your local humane society may even beable to place a foster dog in your care for a while to see how deacon responds.
Good luck; and keep us posted on your progress.

 

Thanks for the training advice. I'd say we do at least 75% of many of the things you mentioned already re: daily mini-training sessions, avoiding dog parks now, daily walks. Sometimes I just stare him down or hip check HIM when I come in a room (like the Rotty used to do) just to keep him in that 2nd position.
Like I said I ALWAYS give him a command for his water or cookies. Then we do "concentration" exercises where he can't touch the cookie until I say OK. I also do that while he stays in the SIT position when the front door's open and I'm bringing in groceries, etc. He's very good at that- even if people/dogs go by. But when I finally say "OK" he RACES out the door or RACES to the treat. But I guess it's good discipline.
It's unfortunate there isn't a family here for more people to put him in his place- it's just the 2 of us now.
I'll try the food thing again. He lasted 3days last time. Every time I put it down he walked away and I'd take it up 20" later.
I'd do it again the next day or that evening- nothing. FINALLY, he ate some but not with enthusiasm...he's odd. He also vomits that yellow bile stuff if he doesn't eat~ but I suppose a couple days won't kill him.
He lunges at people in the house so it's worse than just a growl.
He's not bitten yet but I think that's more due to my vigilance than his. My mom gave him cheese and unfortunately AFTER he was polite and took it following her commands, etc... She made eye contact and said his name- well, that was it- he went into that Red Zone, snarled/barked and was MEAN to her.
He didn't lunge but I had to step in and correct him. He just went in a corner and WATCHED her which scared her to death.
Well, she's 77yrs old and now has no interest in getting to know him... can't blame her.
My heart's in my throat when i let him sniff people- usually he just sniffs and walks away but twice he just got aggressive- for NO REASON I could see. The person did nothing but sit there.
AND- one of them he already KNEW!
He's just so scared all the time- it's sad but also dangerous.
He needs that Rehabilitation Center in L.A.
OK- well I'll check in again soon...Off to take up the breakfast he didn't eat!
Deb

 

Eye contact...thats all thats sometimes needed for a dog to feel like he's being challenged. Dogs read body language more than anything....so what me might not think as threatening, the dog will...or at least feel like he's being challenged. When I talk about your guests ignoring him, I mean COMPLETELY...no good dog, no pets or looking at him...nothing...even when they give him a treat...just tell them if he comes over to not even acknowledge him...just have the treat in their hand at their sides and don't stop what they are already doing, if you're having a conversation just keep talking...just open their hand and let the treat drop to the floor or let him take it out of their hand. You have to let him know that people are not a threat to him at all and that he doesn't have to worry about them.
Don't forget...he still thinks he's top dog, which is why he's showing those types of displays. You're doing all the right things....making him work, it may take some time...but I am sure he will eventually come around. Racing to the treat after you've released him is fine, if you're concerned about the racing out the door, just make sure that you go through the door first, step past him and stand in front of him, just wait a few seconds...then release him...The point is to make him wait until you say its ok for him to go ahead, you are out the door first and standing in front of him until you say it's ok for him to go..just like in a pack. You don't want him rushing PAST you or pushing you out of the way in order to get outside.
Someone had mentioned bringing another dog into your home, I wouldn't bring in a second dog. Your guy is dog aggressive and I think that would be a horrible situation to bring another dog into. Especially if you would just be doing it in order for your dog to have an animal below him in the pecking order, that would be unfair to the other dog. He already does feel he's top dog...bringing another dog in would only escalate that problem. Please don't do that.
The vomiting part, especially if he hasn't eaten anything could be pointing to another problem. Dogs bile is usually a yellow colour so that isn't an alarm. But throwing up when he hasn't eaten might be pointing to something else. I would take him to the vet or call your vet and discuss that with him. As for his skin problems, my vet recommended giving canned salmon to my dog, its good for a dogs skin, it contains omega 3 which is very beneficial, contains vitamin D, B12 & is high in protein. The natural oil produced by salmon is great for keeping a dogs skin and coat in good health. Buy the cheaper kind of salmon, it will contain the bones and some of the skin which are great for your dog. The bones will not hurt him, he'll just crunch them up plus that gives extra calcium. It is rich though, so add it slowly to his food, maybe only 1/4 of the can each time for a week, then after that I would put about 1/2 the can in with his dinner. Deacon sounds a little finicky...but you never know, he might love it.

Keep us posted!!!

 

Hi,
Thanks for all the suggestions- I considered a 2nd dog just for company but I think it will escalate his Bully-nature unless I find an Alpha dog- and then I KNOW my dog will cower and be unhappy in his own home- plus, do I really want to deal with another assertive dog? This dog is NOT an Alpha- he's submissive with fear aggression problems. Sadly, he's not improving with the exercises we do and I can't get enough volunteers to work with him.
The best idea is still to somehow get my Brother involved since HE is the only person my dog will tolerate in my home.
I can't let people in here without my dog being restrained- it isn't safe. And I can't expect people who are nervous to "buck up" and pretend they're not afraid just for Deacon's sake...
My dog would love the company and playfulness of another dog-esp out in the yard- but you never know what you're gonna get with a new dog?
I don't want the poor thing to be afraid in his new home...
a fast/spunky med sized dog would probably be best- maybe someday when Deac's a little older (if he makes it that long)
I do feel SAFE with him in the house since I live alone- he's a great watchdog.
I have some fish oil capsules that I used to take myself- they're cheaper than salmon- so maybe I'll try those for his skin. I tried Olive oil for a while but it didn't seem to help. It's unclear what exacerbates his rashes...right now- he's not bad. He's seen Dermatologists and their best guess is some kind of allergy in his environment- and treatment is steroids as needed...
But I agree I think it's contributed to his antisocial personality.
He's never enjoyed a good belly rub or brushing, etc...cuz I think it hurts him. Almost like if you had a sunburn and everyone wants to pat you on the back!
I'm currently walking an Irish Setter who's on Prednisone so she has to pee often- WHAT A SWEETHEART- kind of makes me sad when someone else's dog is happier to see me visit than my own!!! Oh well... in his own autistic way I know Deacon "gets" that I'm his Master or at least Roomate~ and is grateful in the only ways he knows...like bringing me his toys or his leash to go for a walk. I'll keep ya posted. So far, he's not been aggressive towards people passing by the house and he's not jumping up on the fence freaking out- he just WATCHES...kind of creepy but not overtly aggressive.
Chow for now,
deb

 

Hi Folks,
It's been a while... I've had some HOME construction and some medical problems lately so I haven't been on this Category in a while. I was busy online re: Contractor and flooring issues (and some garden probs).
Well, Deacon & I moved @ the end of last Summer to a smaller home with a bigger yard which he loves but Patrols like he had a paying job for checking the perimeters (actually it's a common Shep trait).
I am fortunate he has not once tried to jump the chained link fence~ and I'm sure he could if he tried. Once he ever does- that's it... but he has several "arch enemy" dogs that pass by daily - one particular Akita he hates (and the feeling's mutual- the male frequently takes a leak on the corner of our front lawn...) but Deacon hasn't jumped over even to get his paws on him.
I truly think his FEAR keeps him secured. He doesn't truly want a confrontation- though he looks like he does and it iS scary. He can see out yet feel safe behind the fence. I am always home when he is outside- just in case- but it would still be a bad situation.
It's been a year & even when workmen and the neighbors are right up close to the fence or walk away- he doesn't jump over... sometimes he'll stand on it- but just barks and is easily distracted with a stick or tennis ball.
I have decided to stop agonizing over putting him to sleep. For now, I am keeping him and doing all I can do to keep others safe. We do not socialize at parks anymore and I have had to stop taking him in the car as he is vicious at every turn and has already cracked one windshield...
So, we walk late OR I cross the street if anyone or other dogs come our way.
He is VERY obedient on leash and will HEEL even though he starts his snarling and aggression as long as I can keep him moving forward (much like what the Dog Whisperer does) he is manageable.
However, he's never going to be able to be around people safely.
Anyone else out there who THINKS they know their dog's behavior but they've shown true aggression in the past is fooling themselves. It's dangerous and you must treat the dog as such.
But, at this point, he's 4yrs old- I've chosen not to give him protective measures as I would a mentally stable dog- so if he should ever develop heartworm or Lyme disease that is when I would opt for euthanasia. I know they're treatable but I also know I can't afford the treatment so it'd be his fate.
That's sad & some may say irresponsible- but it beats putting him down NOW. Frankly, I am certain the incidence is lower than the Vets out there would like us to believe (or at least the Pharmaceutical co's)
He is fairly content with his little life as it is (I think). As long as he gets his outside time (lots of chasing squirrels, sticks/toys and hanging out with me) and the regular walks~ I think he'll be alright and I am more acceptant and at peace about it all.
So... that's the update.
I don't know how to attach pics or I'd include one - he is very handsome but does have a noticeable defect in the height of his hocks being low to the ground (hind ankles so to speak). So, genetically- he is of poor quality and it's unfortunate.
His "autistic" tendencies remain~ he is perhaps a tad more affectionate but it is still mostly on his terms and still freaks out & runs out of the room if I give him TOO much loving- esp in the form of hugs or rubbing his belly. oh well...
Hope all are enjoying their Summer Season.
Deb.

 

Deb,

Thanks so much for the update...I have been wondering what had been going on with you both. I am glad you are opting to do the best you can by Deacon. I also totally understand your stance on preventatives for the issues mentioned. As long as you are at peace with your decisions/choices, no one has any room to say anything about those choices. You have taken the responsibility for Deacon, and given him the best life possible within your means, because you love him and cared enough to deal with his issues. I for one applaud you for your efforts. I also wish the outcome had been better for both of your sakes.

Will keep you both in my prayers as always...do keep us posted as you are able. If you want to add a picture, I believe the easiest way is to upload the picture to a free pic hosting service like PhotoBucket or such, then simply post the link to the picture in your post.

 

Hi All, (RC, I hope you're well!)
Well, Deacon's still ALIVE and about the same. He's not bitten anyone but I still keep him quite isolated at this point. He's not attempted to jump our chain link fence in 2yrs and it's obvious he prefers to avoid confrontation. He still barks and stalks those going by the house however- and God love our understanding Mailcarrier. However, that doesn't mean he is a safe dog to own. I believe my Angels keep watch over him and I am vigilant about his whereabouts and keeping doors closed, etc. He's very obedient but just doesn't like anyone or anything near the house or near HIM.
Cesar Milan hasn't responded other than advising to see a "local" trainer. He was in Boston area in ?2005? but didn't respond to my begging.
I did bring Deac to a nearby Military K-9 trainer last month who said I was taking chances by owning him. He described him as a "shell of a dog" and lacking confidence that a GSD should have. He wasn't as "bad" as I'd described him- but per usual- he was on his best behavior for some reason. (I think it's when he's really terrified as he's like that @the Vet's too)
He also believed I should euthanize him or be prepared for a lawsuit someday. UGGH>
So, we still enjoy late night walks when nobody's "out" OR a stress-filled rigid training walk in the daytime where he AND I try to remain calm/assertive and he launches into his protective mode when we pass anyone- I find if we keep moving forward and his prong collar is on- he's less fixated on the other person or dog for as long as he used to be. But it's not fun. If it's really bad, I put him in a sit position until they've left.
I've not tried the DAP phermone collar as I forgot!!! but I will give it a shot. He doesn't seem unhappy- just a little frustrated as I know he used to love to run with other dogs at the park until about 2 1/2 yrs old- he's 5 now! He never liked people much. He has however gotten more trusting with me- quirky though he is- and that's nice. He won't roll on his back or anything but he allows me to pat him more and even comes looking for attention now which he never used to seek. It's so hard to imagine his split personality as he's never been aggressive towards me even when pulling off ticks or playing with bones or whatever.
SO> that's all- just hanging in there and praying he never chases down any children.
He's not a "mauler" type but could bite and that wouldn't be good. He's motion driven and I notice his "new" thing is to be inclined to want to chase cars! (obviously not going to happen as he's always on leash- but it's a new development)
I now just consider myself as if I've adopted a rescue dog and have given him a limited but good life. The hard decision is always in the back of my mind but he's good protection for me now as I live alone- but one day I know he'll have to be put down for everyone's safety. (i can hear those of you who think this is dangerous and are glad you aren't my neighbor) but believe me- there are a lot of dogs that BITE out there- even the supposedly "friendly" Goldens! (we have more dog bites from them and Labs than from Sheps and Rotties in my area) I'm a nurse at an outpt clinic- it's surprising! So, one should be c autious around ALL dogs really...
Have a good Summer!
deb

 

Deb,

Thanks for the update...I do keep you and Deacon in my prayers, and often hope to hear how he's doing.

I don't recall if you said you have ever had his vision checked? You said something that made me think of that, the part about his re-actions seeming to be motion driven...I know the vet is a nasty 3 letter word to him, but perhaps if sedated? It kind of made me think that if he has vision issues, that may be part of his problem.

Sorry that none of the trainers you spoke with were able to offer any real guidance. I am not sorry that you are doing your utmost to give Deacon a good home though. I respect you a lot for all you have done and are doing for a dog that, should not be in the condition he is in.

When, and if that time comes, please feel free to pm me or post if you need some support...but hopefully that will be long in the distance, if at all...the powers that be have ways of making things easier on us humans sometimes.

Blessings,
Rhainy

 

Deacon's vision seems ok but prob not great- he misses food that falls on the floor sometimes, but never misses a squirrel in the trees. His sense of smell isn't so great either (odd considering his breed)
It is disheartening about the trainer's opinions and putting him to sleep. I believe for now this is the dog I'm meant to have.
I prayed alot before I got him and this is the one I chose from the litter! (should've gone with the sedate little female in retrospect- lol) Though he passed the "puppy" testing reasonably well. Who knew?
Such if life I suppose. We're dealing with a lot of TICKS now it's insane> much worse than last yr at this time in Boston.
I hate them. Very hard to locate on his dense fur too.
Well- I will surely contact You if it does end up I put him down one day...
Currently I'm working on solving the mud problem in my backyard so he doesn't come in so covered with it- I have a really bad back and can't deal with how long it takes to clean him off with the bending and all> (I hope he realizes somewhere inside how much care he is to own and appreciates it)
Others are right on this forum that many people just see pets as "disposeable" and they're not!
Bye for now
deb

 

Hi Deb,

I think it's wonderful that you care so much about Deacon. I too had a dog that few people liked because of his behavior. He had been traumatized when he was young and never totally got over it. He was my heart and soul mate and it helps now that he's gone to know that he knew he was loved. When I think of him I smile knowing that I did all I could do to make his life happier.

Hugs to you and Deacon,
Newt

 

Deb,

I would suggest you get in to your vet and get some Advantix from them for Deacon. It is a flea and tick killer that lasts about a month per application. It should only be about $15 or so for a month's application. If you have a Petsmart close, they usually carry it as well.

As for the mud...you didn't mention if there is a deck or what outside the door...we have Astro Turf laid down right outside our back door. Not the really tall stuff, but the kind you'd put on your deck. Our dogs feet get pretty clean, though not totally when they come in from the muddy backyard.

I am glad to hear that Deacon's sight seems ok, but the fact he misses food may be a key to part of the issue. If he is not seeing properly things that are suddenly nearby him, may cause him to startle and react. Just a thought as I said...

Keep us posted and I will continue to keep you and Deacon in my prayers.

 

Thank you Newt- I'm sorry about your doggy but it IS comforting to know you did all you could do to take GOOD and loving care of him while he was alive. I don't know how people live with themselves who abandon their animals because of shedding or even bad breath! I personally have a friend (my hairdresser) who should've known better but got a pug puppy and then decided - gee, she's a lot of work! Gave the dog to a co-worker like she was a mint or something.
Anyways, I will always know I did MORE than enough for this challenging animal. They can't always help how they turn out either (as yours was traumatized and you can't turn back time, they have their emotional scars)
RC- I have been remiss about his Frontline this yr but did use it last year and he STILL gets them. I believe it's to KILL them once they latch on so that's good re: disease prevention but don't know of any products that will actually REPEL the ticks- do you? Is that what Advantix will do?
It's skeeving me out- I've found them on ME, on the bed, on his paw crawling UP.
I'm tempted to spray my yard with something- but that's not practical or prob safe for animals.
We're going to the FREE RABIES SHOT clinic next wk- that should be FUN (not)- he's guaranteed to be nervous and scare other people and their dogs. I'm hoping the Vet will be understanding and vaccinate him near my car (muzzle on, etc)
I can't afford his usual Vet unless he gets really sick. They insist on doing a physical for $100+ or they won't give him any shots. It's a racket. I mean I understand it's "ideal" but my dog isn't ideal- so one should be able to get the basic shots done for their baseline cost. IMO.
Re: his eyesight, I never thought that he may just be skiddish because as you say things suddenly "appear" and scare him- so he goes on the offensive. Wonder if they make contact lenses for dogs!? I think he just gets overly excited & doesn't pay attention...whatever it is- It IS.
Wish us luck!

 

Deb, thanks for your kind words. I really needed them tonight. I was getting ready for bed and remembered I hadn't put out the recycling. So I grabbed today's mail to sift for the junk, and there was a letter addressed to my dog! Yup, it was addressed to Backdraft ****** (he was a dalmation). I opened it only to discover that one of the drugs he had been taking was being recalled!!! Not just to the pharmacy, but to the patients. Now I know why he suddenly got so ill that we had to send him over the Rainbow Bridge. I have been crying all night and it's 4am and I still can't sleep. The drug was Digitek aka Digoxin. Humans also take it for heart failure. When I read the symptoms I understood what had happened. I was screaming and crying so loud that I woke my hubby sleeping at the other end of the house. I'm furious. The drug company knew about this for months and didn't release the info. I'm livid and heartbroken. I lovingly put those pills in food to keep him alive.

Tomorrow I take my 18 year old cat to the vet so she can meet with Backdraft. She's suffering from renal failure and has gone on as long as she can.

You're a good person!
Newt

 

Deb,

Here is the link to the Advantix porduct, on the company's site: http://k9advantix.petparents.com/

It claims to repell as well, so I would head over to the local pet store/vet store and get some, to put on Deacon. You can also use an insect repellant yourself, on your clothes, such as pants legs and socks/shoes to keep them off you.

I hope the rabies clinic goes well, I understand how tough it can be handling a dog like Deacon, and bless your determination to give him as good a life as possible.

Newt, I am so sorry to hear what happened to your Backdraft, and will keep you and your family in my prayers as your feline fur kid crosses over...these things are never easy...but we love them enough to let them go when the time comes. *Hugs*

 

Rhainy, thank you so much for the kind words. I'm feeling a bit better today, just emotionally exhausted. Tonight I will transporting and overnighting a young beagle/lab mix and her 3 w/o pups for the Pet Railroad. That should get my mind off my woes!


Deb, I don't remember if it's been mentioned before, but in thinking about your visit to the rabies clinic, I was wondering if you've ever used 'Rescue Remedy' by Bach. It's a homeopathic remedy for dogs that are anxious or panic. I use it for two of my rescued dogs when there's a thunderstorm. It costs about $10.00. It comes in a spray or liquid with a dropper. Just two sprays in their mouth or a few drops in their mouth or rubbed into the lobe of the ear and it seems to calm them. You have to get it at a specialty pet food store.

Petco sells another brand that's a bit more expensive called HomeoPet Anxiety Natural Homeopathic Remedy that's a spray.

PetSmart carries NaturVet Calm Down for Dogs. You put some in their drinking water twice a day. They also have Pet-Ease by NutriVet which are chewable tablets and it's a web only order. Pet-Eze for Dogs by 21st Century are also chewable tablets. Comfort Calm Doggie-Bites by Veterinarian's Best is a web only order and it's treats. In looking at the ingredients I don't think they would be that helpful.

Do read the precautions with these as some can't be used prior to surgery or when taking other drugs.

Newt

 

Deb
I scanned your posting about your dog. I too have had many german sheps. My best friend in the whole world was one. His name was Bart. Bart loved me only me and that was all there was to that. It made me wonder how you react when your dog gets protective. Bart would get to growl and the hair would go up on his back as he checked others out. I would keep hold of his short lease. While scratching his back and tell him its okay be nice. He was the type of dog that only responded to positive in put. He would stand at the edge of my yard and growl and bark as people walked by, I would tell him he was a good boy. You stay in your yard. He would and then come to me for a pat oh his head.

I am glad to hear your not giving up on your dog. I think he may just be so attached to you he feels the need to make sure your okay. Bart was like that. He didn't want anyone to touch me. He was very verbal with growling and barking but never would bite. Except when my exhusband hit me. He then did what he should have and tore him up. I know this probably doesn't help much. But it made me feel better. I miss my Bart he was 15 when he went to rainbows bridge. On last friday I had to send my 12 yr. old female shep. to be with her beloved Bart. She had tumors on her stomach that I had removed only to come back quicker and I could see it in her eyes. I miss my family....

 

Hi there Folks,
It's been too long. Hope everyone's well.
I haven't checked in for a while but do think about the DIY group often. Deacon is still around and with me. He's still not hurt anybody - had one close call just a week ago with my brother when he slipped out the front door (1st time ever, right through my legs) and he got all mouthy and growly and lunged - it was loudy and scary but he never actually bit him- my brother was quick and kind of spun out of his way as the dog just ran down the driveway towards the car. Now, mind you- I was happy there were no children around, though I really think the dog would have kept running- thankfully no cars coming either. And definitely glad no other dogs! He would start a fight and then not know WHAT to do... He appeared to want to get in the car- which he likes. He came right back in when i called him- whew! At least the obedience lessons paid off.
But that's actually the only close call we've had in a "non" controlled environment. He is still unpredictable at the Vet's. He is bad in the wtg room so we usher him in & out quickly but he's quite good with the exams. He's fairly healthy so we don't go often- he had Lyme disease last yr though- but had no sx's- we just did the screening so he had to be treated. He was there for what I thought was a sinus infection- his nose was draining this yucky green mucus and he was sneezing a lot.
Then of course, the free Rabies clinic was no fun either- he was shockingly fine with the other dogs in line! He was muzzled. Then after the dog office walked by 3 times on the 4th pass he decided to go into attack mode!- he's very unpredictable. I asked her not to talk to him but she did anyways- so maybe that's why?
Or my anxiety over it all caused it- I don't know. We just live with it. It's still lonely. Nobody visits and he still gives affection essentially on his terms so that hasn't changed much either. (it's like the 13yo boy syndrome not wanting to be hugged) But sometimes I just make him sit there and hug and kiss him anyways- then he bolts and grabs a toy. But I am glad I kept him- he is my friend and he is coping the best he can in a world he finds to be a scary place. At home he feels safe. And though he is "limited" functionally/emotionally, I know he is well cared for.
My back is still bad- but I am able to work a little from my house on the laptop so that's good. Right now, I'm trying to figure out a place to get him washed. I just can't do it in the tub anymore and no groomers will take him in this area. (where we used to live there was one older fellow who got along w/him since puppyhood) I did hear of a "self-serve" place- almost like a doggy car wash. So, we're going to check that out before the weather gets too chilly here in Boston.
So, that's about it. We had a short Summer here- mostly Rain in June/July... but it's been nice since. Hope everybody else's animals are thriving and you're all enjoying your pets!
deb

 

Deb,

Thank you for updating us. And Bless you for still having Deacon. I have thought about you and Deacon. It sounds like you are doing the best you can for him. That's all we can do sometimes. Hang in there.

 

Good to hear from you RC. I was hoping you'd send a reply. you're in my prayers too that you continue to do well, you have such a good attitude~
Dog's the same, as you read. I have a back procedure coming up in 3wks so I just hope I can handle him afterwards and he behaves. He is actually mellowing some as he gets older- which is good. Still barks but that's normal. I should be ok, since we have the fenced in yard. Just need to stock up on the big bag of dogfood!
He'll be bored but he'll just have to "deal" with it. I remind him frequently that many dogs have it a lot worse.
deb

 

Deb,

Glad to hear...will keep you in our prayers, as always, but especially with the back issue. You may want to talk to your vet about some low level tranquilizers for Deacon...something like prozac(can't recall if you have used it or not) or Acepromazine (Sp) which is used for pets when they travel. I am mainly concerned with your recovery time, and him staying mellow. It's just a thought, but please do check with your vet about prescribing something for him.

Do keep updating us as you have time, I do think about you two a lot.

 

Hi,
thanks for your thoughts & prayers. My back procedure itself went well but didn't really "work". It was a 50/50 chance worth taking but my pain's about the same afterwards, oh well. The dog behaved nicely though and without any meds, that was good.
Yes, he was tried on Prozac sev yrs ago for his temperment problems but all it did was cause him to lose his appetite and weight so I stopped it. (he's thin enough!) I was given something called Acetapromezine (as you mentioned) for a long car trip last year which worked great on the way up (he was kinda like a drunken dog but slept most of the way) still managing to bark at the tolls somehow but less "capable"... but the way home it wasn't as effective??? Go figure. I didn't think to use it on him during my recovery time.
Anyways- his new "issue" is weird flares of red painful ears. They think it may be allergic in nature but it's awful and can happen very quickly. Sometimes it's after I clean them but sometimes he'll just rub his ear or come inside and his ear is pointed out sideways like a cow and all red inside and VERY painful to the touch. He paces and can't get comfortable. It's awful. I give him benadryl and topical steroids. It only lasts about 1-2days but we've had several nights with little sleep. (because he's not the kind of dog you can soothe!) He WANTS to be comforted and comes to you for it but only lasts maybe 10" then has to move away to be alone. It's heartbreaking really... I got some Rimadyl from my mother's dog with arthritis to use as well. So, now I just drug him up and usually within about 2hrs he's able to sleep.
Next day he's usually fine. it is SO WEIRD.
Thankfully I have a very understanding Vet who doesn't make him keep coming in for appts. I don't know why he makes so much nasty brown ear wax though- this "red ear flare" can alternate either ear... it doesn't seem to be a bacterial infection. Uggh. Always something with him. But- other than that- he's the same. Still hasn't bitten anybody- whew!
Still on constant squirrel patrol...
Hope all's well with everybody. Pick your Shepherds well!!! (spend as much early puppy-time with them as you can)
deb

 

Deb & Deacon,

Glad to hear the procedure went well, but not that the outcome wasn't what could have improved your back!

As for the ear issue, that definitely is weird! What I would try is using Witch Hazel to clean his ears. My vet recommends it often, and while it isn't a true anti-biotic/anti-microbial, it seems to help, and will actually kill yeast infections.

Also, another thing, ask your vet about using Revolution on Deacon. It not only kills fleas, but also many worms and earmites. It is a once a month like Advantage.

Will be keeping you both in our thoughts, do keep us posted.

 

I'll try the Witch Hazel idea. I've been using some solution called "Oti-Calm" which has some glycerin and other stuff in it~ but it's worth a try I just hope it doesn't sting as he actually has areas that get raw and spot bleed after cleaning. It must be very painful.
My other Sheps never had ear issues.
He was checked for earmites initially and I "presume" fungal infection too but I'm sure it could've been missed. His "butt's" been bothering him lately so I DO draw the line there with ME doing his care- no anal glands thank you, etc (plus he could have worms? I dunno) He just keeps licking there which he NEVER does- he lacks normal "grooming" instincts to all his private areas (well- what's left) lol.
So, if we go back, I will have her recheck everything again and see what else can be done for the ears.
Fingers crossed re: the witch hazel idea.
(though frankly it seems like any pressure to the ear tissue is what triggers his reaction)
thanks again about "my" back. I'm having another MRI this week to see what's going on?