Dogs pee behind chair

We have two Bishon Havenese dogs. One is 7 months old, the other is 9 years.
They have taken to peeing behind a chair in the living room where we seldom sit. Twice now I have pulled up the carpet, replaced underlay and some subfloor. We are sure the older dog is going there also.
We followed all the rules to housebreaking, we pen them when we are out and make them go outdoors regularly. Several times a day we take them outside stay with them until we get a "visual" that they have done their duty.
I think my wife may have a great idea. She put their food behind the chair. So far just one or two "accidents" behind the chair. Much fewer than before.
However, my big issue is that the young dog will go to the patio door but wont' make any noise, so if we arent' watching she (or they), pee somewhere.
1) Any training secrets to get dogs to alert you they want out?
2) I am considering putting a motion detector by the door that turns on a radio or light so we know when they want out. Its winter now so we won't be using the door much ourselves.
Any ideas?
PS: we have intensely tried every chemical and method advertised to rid the carpet of odour but I can't seem to get it out. I would replace but until I have them trained, its futile.

 

Pet urine tends to settle not only downward but outward three to five times the size of the spill on the surface. You can clean and deodorize carpet, but you can not clean carpet cushion or subfloor. Pets tend to return to the scenes of their crimes do to odor. Carpet is not an ideal floor covering for pets. Ceramic tile and vinyl can be easily cleaned.

As long as you have an odor problem, you will continue to have to deal with pet accidents. Keeping pets caged when you can not watch them every single minute will prevent accidents, because they tend not to want to mess their cages. Dogs should be evaluated by a vet to determine if their are any underlying health issues. Then, begin intense potty training again.

 

Keeping them under 100% supervision is a good idea. If you can't be there, keep them in a pen where they are safe, and you are free to relax.
Best secret to alerting you they need out: ringing a bell. You can get all kinds, we use an old bear bell tied to the door nob, I've seen people use "ring bell for service" type bells, christmas wreathes, etc. Before you let the dog out, take its paw and hit the bell (or encourage it to jump and hit the bell itself). My puppy is just starting to get the hang of this. It's hilarious watching her throw herself at the bell! Until the training is complete, the motion sensor could work, but I've never had much trouble training the bell method. Of course, any other noise maker would work too!
As far as getting the scent out, Orange cleaner tends to work on the surface, because they don't like the smell of it (or most don't). They won't go back there, and its not harmful to them at all. Hope you have some luck!!
Courtenay

 

Thanks all.
As I type this the "girls" have gone upstairs and are rooting about so that probably illustrates I don't have the discipline (or heart) to pen them. I will suffer the consequences I'm sure!
I've heard of the bell but I thought that was an urban myth!
I'm going to give the motion detector a shot because a bell is way too simple and would only cost $5.00 while the motion sensor is high-tech and I get to spend $45.00.
Actually, putting their food in their favorite peeing post has really worked quite well.
I will try that orange cleaner.

 

You must be careful, as dogs can (and will) get into things and get sick/hurt. I had a pup get into a pack of batteries. he actually swallowed the acid. He nearly died. We found that keeping him on a 6-10 foot leash was easier than penning him (separation anxiety was an issue) so that's what we did . We also put baby gates around so he was always inthe same "area" as us.

 

i remember that when my dog was still a little one,once he peed, he would be punished by my father at the place where he peed. the next time,he would change to another place to pee,but that would lead him another punishment .for several times, he became cute,and always peed at the place where he would not be punished.

 

You're motion detector idea sounds good, but will the pups realize what the heck is up? They may not associate the sounds or light with their action of going to the door. With the bell they have to 'tell' you what they want. It provides some mental stimulation for them not just a response. I used the bell very successfully with my mutts--i just have to take it off the knob at night or I'd be up every time a critter wandered across the yard!

As for the odor problem-- you might try using an enzymatic cleaner and a steam carpet machine. I have had success with the Nature's Miracle brand for years. Works great as a stain remover for laundry too.

 

We're doing real well lately. Putting their food behind the chair has completly eliminated that problem.
The little one goes to the door now but if we aren't watching, she will do her stuff right in front of the patio doors. Has only happened about three times in the last month.
I fully intend on getting a bell mounted in the next day or two. My wife wants to do that but I'm worried we'll be upstairs and not hear it. Oh well.
I'll keep you posted.