'90 F-250 Ignition problem... I think its a dead short

Reply

  #1  
Old 07-17-12, 05:20 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 19,720
'90 F-250 Ignition problem... I think its a dead short

Okay, so I have to say I'm not much of a mechanic, and know even less about 12V wiring. Here is the deal:

no crank... battery is fine. So I jump the starter relay solenoid (on the fender) with the key on, and it starts. So I replace the starter relay solenoid. Didn't fix it.

So I find these instructions online for my situation:

"If you have a Test Light or VOM you would need to check the wire/ s at the Solenoid, Ignition Swtch & Neutral Safety Switch. Check wire at Solenoid when you turn the Key to Crank. If the wire shows nothing: Check the Ignition Wire at the Ignition Switch, towards the Bottom of the Steering Column. Wire is RED / Lt. Blue. If the wire shows nothing: Jumper a Wire from the RED / Lt. Blue to the YELLOW. If the Starter CRANKS, Replace Ignition Switch. If the Starter Does NOT Crank: Find Neutral Safety Switch at Bottom Of Steering Column: Jumper a wire accross the 2 wires at the Switch. Turn Ignition Switch to CRANK. If the Starter Cranks, Replace Neutral Safety Switch."

Problem is, I'm too dumb (and color-blind) to figure out any of the wiring stuff and I don't have the courage to start disconnecting wires. I also don't know where the neutral safety switch is even located.

But here is what I do know:

I took a 12V tester (the kind that lights up when there is power) and tested the small post on the starter relay solenoid to see if there is power there when the switch is on. And there is NOT.... BUT...

if I disconnect the negative battery terminal, and hook the tester directly to the battery post, and then turn the switch on, THEN there is power at the small post of the starter relay solenoid. Very strange. So am I correct in assuming that there is a short somewhere along the line? Either in the ignition switch, or the neutral safety switch? (its a manual transmission)

And can anyone help me figure out what to do next? Or does the fact that the ignition switch works when it's disconnected from the battery mean the ignition switch is bad?

Thanks a bunch if you can help! It's my grandpa's pickup and since he's 98 he's in no shape to be of much help!
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 07-17-12, 07:08 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 19,720
Update: I messed around with the ignition switch a little more, took the keyed portion out, cleaned it up, lubed it a little, put it back in, and out of maybe 20 tries I got it to start ONCE. All the other times the dash lights would come on, but no sound from the starter or relay at all.

Is it safe to assume that it's the keyed portion of the ignition switch?
 
  #3  
Old 07-18-12, 05:08 AM
the_tow_guy's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SW Fla USA
Posts: 11,525
Would head the list of possibles, I think. At 22+ years old, it's been actuated a few times.

That's a plain vanilla key, right, not a chipped one?
 
  #4  
Old 07-18-12, 05:57 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 19,720
Plain key. I wonder if grandpa has another key I could try? Maybe that would make a difference if the key was worn?

Oh, and I see that Chilton's calls it a "clutch switch" on a std transmission, not a neutral safety switch.

This is really driving me nuts.

So is there a way to test the remainder of the ignition system once I have removed the keyed lock, like with a screwdriver or something, to see if it's the keyed lock... or if it's the ignition switch under the steering column? I can get the keyed lock out easily, but the ignition switch will be a little more work. And I'd rather not just start buying and replacing parts!
 
  #5  
Old 07-18-12, 05:40 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 19,720
Well, tonite I went down to try and remove the steering column and I got as far as removing the bottom 3" portion of the steering column shroud, where it meets the dashboard.

When I did that, I thought, I should try and actuate this push rod with a pliers while I turn the key. And when I did, sure enough, the truck started! So I gave it a shot of lubricant and tried it a couple more times and it works GREAT!

Seeing all the posts on the internet about the broken push rod linkage made me think to check that.

Well, at least it works now and I can quit obsessing over it, and move on to obsessing about something else. LOL

thanks for replying, towguy!
 
  #6  
Old 04-26-14, 10:33 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 19,720
OK, so I'm back to this same problem again... and this time using the pliers doesn't do the trick. The ignition switch works in every position except START... previously I lubricated the actuator rod and/or manually "helped" push the rod down with a pliers inserted right at the base of the steering column. Giving it just a little extra push usually started it. But now nothing works.

Am I correct in assuming that either the ignition switch is bad... or the actuator rod is not making contact because the ignition switch itself needs to be adjusted just a bit higher on the steering column?

I suppose I will try the latter and see if it helps. It seems like in some instructions that I'm finding it tells you to adjust the switch to the mid-position of the rod lash.
 
  #7  
Old 04-26-14, 04:47 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,968
Is this grandpa's truck? http://www.doityourself.com/forum/pi...l-problem.html
Confusing with two threads.
 
  #8  
Old 04-26-14, 05:32 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 19,720
Yes, it was 2 unrelated problems which originally occurred a year apart. Now that grandpa has passed away both problems are now current again and need to be fixed.

One problem is with no cranking (ignition switch or actuator push rod).
Other problem was no fuel... (just finished replacing fuel pump, which solved that one.)

It's cranking again when you turn the key, so that problem seems to be intermittent. I probably will try to adjust the ignition switch that is on top of the steering column and tap it up 1/8" or so, if it will move. If it doesn't rain I'll try that tomorrow.

I still need to attach the 2" fuel fill hose to the top of the tank, which is practically impossible to do. Thank you Ford.
 
  #9  
Old 04-26-14, 06:05 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,968
Oh, OK. I was reading both threads thinking "no start" was the problem. One was "no crank". OH yeah, the little fuel lines are the toughest. Hemostats help, especially with fat fingers like mine.
 
  #10  
Old 04-26-14, 07:42 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 19,720
This is a 2" diameter- giant radiator hose sized- double walled fuel fill hose that comes from the gas cap lid. Taking it off was a lot easier than putting it back on... I had about 12 gallons of fuel and gravity helping me yank it off. The problem with putting it back on is that you can't hardly get to the end of the hose or the hose clamp where it attaches to the gas tank. I'm thinking I will have to pull the hose off the fuel fill side and drop the tank slightly to get it on. You can only get one hand on it cuz it's on top of the tank, behind the frame and you have to feel your way around. it feels like the hose is 1/4" too small to go over the pipe end. If you start it on one side you can feel that it's 1/4" too small on the other side to slip on. Maybe the fuel vapors have shrunk the rubber or something. Quite frustrating.

 
  #11  
Old 04-27-14, 10:11 AM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 30
Everytime I have messed with the tank or fuel pump in a tank on a truck, I just take the bed off. Might be an option if you have too much trouble with the hose?
 
  #12  
Old 04-27-14, 10:28 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 19,720
Maybe. Getting the tank off is easy, it's just 2 nuts. But that dang hose... Its raining this afternoon but next time I get a chance I'm going to drop the back half of the tank back down and then try and attach the outer hose to the tank first, before pushing it back up and bolting it on. At this point the hose is kind of stuck and doesn't want to slide down. Looked up the new hose... they want $60 just for the outer hose! (not the filler neck and hose... that part's over $150!)
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'