Hemi Rust

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  #1  
Old 08-18-17, 06:10 PM
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Hemi Rust

I have a 2012 Dodge Ram Hemi quad cab that has some rust raising the paint on the left front fender behind the headlights. At first I thought is was tree sap that had dripped on the fender, but tree sap remover would not budge it. i used a razor blade to removed the bubbled paint and discovered rust underneath the raised paint. I was surprised to find that the plastic innner fender well liner which has holes for 7 capscrews, was missing the upper 3 screws on BOTH sides of the truck. I tried to move an existing screw into the tab which had none, and it would not work. There was nothing for the screw to tap into in those positions on either side. This allowed the fender liner to permit water and probably salt and everything else to get on the back side of the front fenders for 5 years. Please tell me that Dodge did not design this truck to have this happen. When i remove the liners this weekend, hopefully I will see the extent of the damage well enough to know what to do next. and hopefully it is not to replace both fenders on this truck. I planned for this to be my last truck but it does not look good right now! If anyone has a 2012 Ram, go out and take a look at your front fender wells. If you don't have 7 screws fastening it to the outer fender, you might want to figure something out!
 
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Old 08-18-17, 06:48 PM
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I had a similar problem with rust on a 2012 Dodge Van. However, I didn't realize it until I moved to Floriduh for a year. Long story short is that I never saw the rust until it stained the owner's drive way. I was told that when a vehicle is brought from the north to the south, the sun bakes the rust & the rain washes it to the ground. Do you live in a costal state?
 
  #3  
Old 08-18-17, 06:57 PM
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Hemi Rust

I live in Ohio and the only coast is Lake Erie lol The rust I have on my truck is contained under the paint on the outside of fender for now, and I have treated it with Permatex rust converter. I need to get behind the fender for the reasons stated earlier to see how bad it is under there. I was amazed to see how wide open the back sides of these fenders were to the elements. I will be looking at a lot of Ram Trucks in the next few days!
 
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Old 08-19-17, 04:54 AM
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I was told that when a vehicle is brought from the north to the south, the sun bakes the rust & the rain washes it to the ground.
Another add to the book of wives tales!
 
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Old 08-19-17, 05:05 AM
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Monday I will retire my 2008 Ram, replacing it with a 2017 Ram, primarily due to rust, just as was the case with my '98 Ram before that. The most sickening part, for me anyway, is that both the '98 and '08 were otherwise great trucks, no significant complaints, and ran as well at the end as they did brand new. The rust on my '08 is predominantly around the rear fender wells, but have spots starting to show around the front fenders as well. For me, it's not a matter of vanity or anything like that, I didn't design or build the darn thing after all, but the defining moment was when I visited the widow of one of my closest friends a few weeks ago and she asked what I had on my truck, so I turned to look, and a piece about 4" by 12" was dangling from around the passenger side fender well. Well, that was only disheartening, but, had it been a client, it would have been downright embarrassing. So this time around I decided to be more proactive, and insisted that they remove the plastic (or whatever they are) inner fender liners, and there is a lot of metal in there that I do not believe can be adequately rustproofed or otherwise accessed with those liners in place. And my point is that I think your 2012 is of similar design to my 2017, so I recommend that you pull those liners in order to get in there and see what is going on, because trying to repair it from the outside is only going to end up being cosmetic in nature, and surely return much sooner than you want. The dealer grumbled a little bit about doing this, "all of the extra time, etc.", but the guy who did the work told me that it took about 15 minutes to pull all four liners, and maybe 20 minutes to reinstall them. He had it on a lift, granted, but point is that it's not a big job. Oh, and I am in Michigan by the way, so somewhat similar conditions to what you have, although I think we have a tendency to be more liberal with the salt.
 
  #6  
Old 08-30-17, 08:19 PM
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Hemi Rust

Dodge went to Body Shop today and the left front fender was totally shot. Good news was the right front was ok, even though the push pins were left out on the 3 top tabs (that you can't see easily. If you own a 2012 you might want to check if yours are missing too (probably ran out of them the day mine was built and just sent it on down the line) Scares me about steel trucks. If I live long enough I will buy an aluminum one the next time. (I don't know why they don't make them out of plastic too) I know I keep vehicles too long but my 88 T-Bird is still rust free and gets me down the road in style...
 
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Old 08-30-17, 10:38 PM
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The most sickening part, for me anyway, is that both the '98 and '08 were otherwise great trucks, no significant complaints, and ran as well at the end as they did brand new.
So maybe I'm too practical, if I have a great running older vehicle and it has some rust, who cares.

All cars rust eventually. granted some may have areas that are prone but rust itself is cosmetic.
 
  #8  
Old 08-31-17, 02:18 AM
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but rust itself is cosmetic.
Depends on where it's at! My wife's youngest son had to quit driving the pickup he bought new because the frame rusted in two The manufacture had a recall on the frames but not for his year. My old beater truck wouldn't still be on the road had I not welded patches to the frame where the leaf springs attach. I've also seen body mounts rusted away. I do agree that most body rot is just cosmetic.
 
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Old 08-31-17, 08:37 AM
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My old beater truck wouldn't still be on the road
We're talking about a relatively new vehicle, the 08 is only 9 years old so at this point we're talking cosmetic!
 
  #10  
Old 08-31-17, 01:21 PM
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Yes, I guess that you could say mine was cosmetic. I didn't, but could have fit my hand through the holes in either rear fender when I traded it in two weeks ago. And I hadn't noticed it until I was cleaning all of my tools and whatever out of it, but both rocker panels inside the rear doors were tissue paper thin as well. I looked for several months for a bed, and got a paint estimate from a local body shop so that I had some idea what my costs would be if I were to find one of a different color, but was unable to find anything. I even offered a couple of younger guys I know, who have actually done several restorations of their own and are more internet savvy than I, a $200 "bounty" if they could find a bed for me, and they came up empty. At the rate it had deteriorated this past year I honestly do not believe that I could have washed it at a car wash without pieces literally falling off by spring. So call me vain, but for over 45 years both my wife and I have worked, no layoffs or breaks between jobs, so while we are not rich, we are not starving, and there is a point at which I sometimes, albeit reluctantly, take off my generally frugal to a fault hat and look at things from a purely practical standpoint. In this case, I was looking at tires, brakes, and shocks before winter, and, assuming one is out there someplace, a bed by spring, so a total of around $4,000, plus, if the bed was a different color, and I wanted to be really vain, a few hundred more to get it painted. And then how long would it be before brake lines and other more critical components starting failing due to rust and corrosion. Yes, I looked for just a bed, and pretty seriously, but to spend that much on a vehicle about 3 month short of 10 years old didn't make sense to me. Oh, and I don't know why, maybe because I really am stupid and they saw more value in the old girl than I did, the amount that the dealer gave me on trade, plus the cost of tires, shocks, and brakes, not figuring a new bed, came to within less than $1,000 of what KBB listed for my vehicle in excellent condition. And that wasn't them jiggling numbers around because I was fortunate enough to have "friends and family" or whatever the various programs are for Ford, GM, or Ram, so the prices I was looking at for new ones were fixed regardless of what I decided on. So yeah, maybe I'm vain, but when I scratched it all out on a sheet of paper and thought it over for a few weeks it seemed to make sense.
 
  #11  
Old 08-31-17, 03:53 PM
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Being employed by GM I certainly cant complain when anybody buys a new vehicle. Personally the last new vehicle I bought was in 1984.

Currently I buy 3-4 year old vehicle and drive them into the ground, it's the cheapest ownership model, even having to spend some on new parts.

Recently it was reported that the average transaction price this year was $38K, AVERAGE!! I have no idea who is paying that much money for a car but I have other options where that extra money will benefit my family instead of the auto makers.
 
  #12  
Old 09-02-17, 07:57 AM
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Hemi Rust

Got the Dodge back today and the paint job was terrific but the top push pins that old the fender to the liner were missing. Since the absence of these probably caused the 5 year bath of road debris , water, and salt to ruin this fender in the first place, I am looking for the proper pins to put back. At 4 bucks each at the dealer, I thought I might find an aftermarket version, but no luck so far. The pin needs to be pretty long to grab the liner and pull the two together . Any Ideas as to where I could find some?
 
  #13  
Old 09-17-17, 07:50 AM
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Hemi Rust

Ok, here is the update. I found out (from a dealer body shop) that the rust that started all this was because of sound deadening pads that are installed on the fenders (inside) that collect road debris. (The dealer knew right where the rust was without me telling him) The "push pins" I thought were missing, are missing on trucks that do not have some trim option. I thought they were supposed to hold the fender to the liner but they don't. The dealer said that leaves an air way for water to evaporate) I said yeah and that leaves the acid to sit on inside of the fenders and rot them out) So any way the rest of the truck insides are almost completely rust free. so I am taking it to Ziebart to be protected. I took my factory bedliner out to see what might be under there. and along with a lot of dirt and rocks, I found a lot of spots where the red paint had been rubbed off by the liner movement. I definitely want to put the liner back, but wonder what to do about all the spots where the red paint is now gone. There is no rust showing, just what looks like to me to be white primer or something. Would you guys re paint the whole bed to protect it, or do something else?
 
  #14  
Old 09-17-17, 09:27 AM
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I'd sand/prime the affected spots and then either repaint the inside of the bed before reinstalling the bed liner or [preferably] coat the bed with either spray on or roll on bed liner
 
  #15  
Old 09-18-17, 07:55 AM
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Bedliner Protection

I know the guys at Ziebart would love to add the cost of a RHINOLINER to the bill I am going to get for the rustproofing. Have you heard anything good or bad about that Brand?
 
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Old 09-18-17, 08:36 AM
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I don't recall hearing anyone bad mouth any of the spray on bedliners. I suspect like most coatings proper prep is key.
 
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Old 09-18-17, 08:47 AM
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Bed liner

I spoke to the owner of the Ziebart Location a few minutes ago. He said no one likes to believe that the damage to the paint in the bed (from the factory or other plastic bedliners happens in the first 6 weeks of use. I wouldn't have believed it either if I hadn't removed mine so they could get to the rest of the job more easily. (I also didn't want any surprises from any damage I wasn't expecting hidden under the liner.) Hopefully all the mechanicals will stay safe for the duration. (bucket list truck)
Thanks for the replies and advice!
WML 13

ADAPT, SURVIVE, PROLIFERATE!
 
  #18  
Old 09-18-17, 08:50 AM
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What happens is those drop in bed liners tend to scoot around a little especially when the bed is loaded/unloaded. That movement is why the paint gets worn thru. IMO a drop in bed liner is best used on an old truck with a rusty bed .... to hide the damage.
 
  #19  
Old 09-18-17, 08:58 AM
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Bedliner

The Factory Liner is really durable, and the Ziebart rep said that there will be room for it after the RHINO LINER is installed. THEN the bed should be bullet proof from the accidental load that gets dropped on it.
 
  #20  
Old 09-23-17, 06:28 AM
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Hemi rust

The new bed liner (Sprayed on rhino shield) is on , and I dropped in the original liner over the top of it. Looks good. However, the Ziebart dealer had pointed out that I had some light surface rust on the inside of the drivers side door jamb (I can only assume this was from water and salt that ran off my boots onto the rubber floor mats and wound up there) I have sanded and applied permatex rust converter on those spots and have a nice black surface to repaint. I have factory paint (base and clearcoat) in aerosol cans mixed for me, but I can't remember If I have to prime it too, and what with. The converter says it makes a paintable surf.ace after i dries and it does look ready, but thought I better get your ideas before I proceed....
 
  #21  
Old 09-23-17, 07:09 AM
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I think the convertor doesn't require a primer over top of it but I'd prime anyway as it looks best if you wet sand the primer before applying the finish paint. I don't know if you should sand the convertor or not.
 
  #22  
Old 09-23-17, 10:05 AM
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Primer

I have some rustoleum primer left over from another project. Will this be compatable with a base Color etc that is OEM material?
 
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Old 09-23-17, 12:27 PM
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As long as your finish paint isn't lacquer based it should be compatible.
 
  #24  
Old 09-24-17, 08:44 AM
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Hemi rust

I could not tell from the cans what the finish paint base was so I went ahead and painted it just using the rust converter as a primer. It came out perfect! (as a suggestion, I would tell your members to put all their door hardware in plastic sandwich bags as you disassemble things. I had to learn this the hard way!)
 
  #25  
Old 09-25-17, 07:47 AM
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HemI Paint

It appears that I spoke too soon. an area where there was no perceptible rust on the door panel apparently had no place to bond the rust converter (which acted as a primer) to, and I was unhappy to see that the new paint separated from the door in that small spot. I called the vendor where I bought the paint to determine what its base was, but dodged the question and told me he had cans of primer that I need if I wanted them. If I can't tell you from the cans I already have, I know you can't help me, but it bugs me when I have only one option.
 
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