Engine turning while trying to remove bolt

Reply

  #1  
Old 01-22-18, 03:49 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,852
Engine turning while trying to remove bolt

So, changing the timing belt on my '97 B2000 (Ranger) 4 cyl, got put on the back burner for a while. Royal PITA but after getting enough stuff off to see the belt, it definitely needs doing. Belt is all cracked and worn on the smooth side and some of the teeth look in bad shape as well. Can't see the whole thing, but if it had gone it would have cost me the head at least, maybe pistons as well.

So, last thing I need to take off is the crank dampener/pulley. Easy access to the bolt, but I can't loosen it. The engine will start to turn backwards (not good) and even with it in gear, wheels chocked and brake set...apparently the clutch is slipping enough that it will still turn. I don't know whether it's worn, contaminated or has some sort of centrifugal mechanism that locks it tighter at higher speed. It's hydraulic, so not an adjustment. It seemed to be driving fine.

So, is my only option pull the starter or the inspection cover (if it has one) and jam the teeth on the flywheel? I saw at other sites that some people secure a breaker bar to the frame and bump the starter to get it loose...which sounds scary to me...but that won't help when I have to tighten it back down.

Only times I had to pull a dampener/pulley before it was with big V-8's with plenty of compression to prevent turning or I had a good clutch I guess.

Any hints, tips, or tricks? Or is locking the flywheel somehow about it?
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 01-22-18, 03:52 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 19,721
Wouldn't an air impact wrench turn it loose without putting a lot of torque on the crankshaft?

Or can you slip an oil filter wrench over the pulley and use it like a pipe wrench to turn the opposite direction?
 
  #3  
Old 01-22-18, 04:18 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,852
Not sure about the impact wrench...might be worth trying if there's room. Rad is out, but don't want to pull the A/C condenser. I think it's too big for any of my filter wrenches (if I even have that type anymore...have moved to the end fit type mostly), but possibly a strap wrench would work... I'll have to take some measurements.

It's been on for 20 yrs and is torqued to about 135ft lbs IIRC. Been soaking it with PB Blaster...so should break free ok I hope.
 
  #4  
Old 01-22-18, 05:07 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,684
Make sure you're turning it the right direction. Then put a breaker bar and socket on it, letting the breaker bar hang straight down. Hit that with a hammer or block of wood beneath the truck. It'll usually break it loose.
 
  #5  
Old 01-22-18, 06:07 PM
pugsl's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 7,679
marbobj beat me to it. Hammer on breaker bar.
 
  #6  
Old 01-22-18, 07:01 PM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 17,109
On small engines I've removed the spark plug and shoved rope into the cylinder. The engine comes up on compression and the rope stops it. Just remember to leave some rope sticking out so you can remove it when you're done.
 
  #7  
Old 01-22-18, 07:28 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,852
Ok! The hammer trick will be easy to test and won't turn the engine too much if it doesn't loosen. Plenty of room under there also. Way better than bumping the starter.

The rope would probably be ok if I had better access to the plugs, but even changing those looks to be a nightmare for some of them. It's only a 4 cyl but it's 2 plugs per. Supposedly to help with emissions or mileage. I read that a few people just changed the ones they could access and let one in each cylinder on the back be. Even then, stuffing the rope in , it will still try and turn until the rope is compressed and they said it could easily jump a tooth...though if I'm changing it and start everything where it's supposed to be, I don't see why thats such a big deal?
 
  #8  
Old 01-23-18, 04:23 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: usa
Posts: 482
If the damper has threaded holes for attaching a puller you can try the following. Get a piece of shelving angle iron at the local box store with enough length to go from the floor to the top of the damper. Attach the angle iron to the damper by passing the bolt through the angle iron and threading into one hole (left side hole when facing the damper for a right handed thread on damper hut) of the damper. Fill any gap (smaller the better) between the angle iron and damper with washers or oversized nuts so there is a solid union. With the angle iron on a solid base, you will break the nut loose or pick the truck off the ground. Good luck.
 
  #9  
Old 01-23-18, 04:36 AM
the_tow_guy's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SW Fla USA
Posts: 11,525
As per sleeper's remark, I've always gunned them (you are the GUN guy afterall).
 
  #10  
Old 01-23-18, 11:06 AM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,852
Thanks Bob...but no holes except the center, at least not on this year and engine. Sometimes the people on the vehicle specific Forums will give advice like "jam a prybar between the frame and one of the notches on the pulley..." only there aren't any notches! They're talking about one of the V-6's or a full size or something. I've probably walked out to look at it 3 or 4 times after reading how they did it.

I'll throw this out too. Say I get it out using one of these methods....it's gotta go back in also. Well, I don't have any calibrated hammers or blocks of wood. And no way will one of those torque limiting/calibrated impact extensions fit in the space. So aren't (ain't? am I not?) I looking at having to lock it somehow anyway?

Luckily there's 3 vehicles between the 2 of us, so this isn't a huge priority, but the pulley is the last thing that needs to come off.

Amazing this all started with replacing the thermostat....so far I've spent $80 on a fan, $40 on the belt and idler, $13 on the stat and gasket, plus $7 on a 22mm socket. Still need to get a waterpump for $40, new compressor and drier for about $300 (if I fix the A/C) and pay to have that refilled.

Oh well, what else do I have to spend money on? Oh yeah...food, health care, the dentist, vet bills, rent, utilities, clothes........lol. At least I have plenty of time!
 
  #11  
Old 01-23-18, 03:38 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: usa
Posts: 482
If you are going to change the clutch at the same time (you mentioned it was slipping) the flywheel will be exposed after removing the transmission. It should be possible to bolt the angle iron to the flywheel and resting on the ground. Place it so the angle iron is turning into the ground when you loosen the nut on the damper. If you are not going to change the clutch, I agree an impact wrench is your best bet. If you don’t have a large enough compressor or air impact, HF has a inch electric (about 200 ft lbs torque) for less than 50 dollars or you can look at renting an electric. With enough extensions and a universal joint you should be able to get a good shot at the damper nut from in front of the grill (assumes radiator is removed). Hopefully the damper comes off with little effort because usually the shape of the back side of the damper makes securing a jaw type puller difficult. Hope this helps.
 
  #12  
Old 01-23-18, 04:31 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,852
Oh no! The clutch isn't slipping when driven, just at the low speed of a wrench...at least I assume it must be since I can turn the engine with it in gear. Yes, it probably should be changed in the future, but I think I'll let a garage with a lift, a tranny jack, and all the goodies do that. I'm no 18 y/o with limber limbs, strong muscles, and fully functional joints anymore. Lifting the 5 speed trans off my chest and aligning the input shaft is no longer in my cards.

The rad is out, but the condenser is still there and I really don't want to disconnect and pull that. This has already spiraled into a bigger job than I hoped. Too late now though...I'm about 70% done except for the darn removal and replacement of the pulley.

Btw...I think it has inside grooves for pulling, seem to remember that as true. I'll be trying all this stuff in the next few days, so I'll let everyone know what worked.
 
  #13  
Old 01-24-18, 12:19 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,684
The suggestion Pilot made with the nylon rope is a really good trick on small engines, but on a car engine you may want to be careful doing that. When you lock up the cylinder with the rope the valves may come down against the rope and a lot of force on the crank can mess up the valve train. When you hydrolock an engine that's about what happens.
 
  #14  
Old 01-24-18, 12:42 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 20,852
Right, I think I've done it myself before I learned that most cheap small engines are pretty much disposable. I know I've taken 2 or 3 apart to find problems that would cost more to repair than a new tool.
 
  #15  
Old 01-24-18, 03:05 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,327
I fought removing a lawn tractor drive pully for half a day. Like you, the engine turned with the wrench. I bought a cheap impact wrench at WalMart and it took about 30 seconds to loosen the bolt.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'