Sewer Line Questions

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  #1  
Old 09-27-02, 03:47 PM
edbreyer
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HELP!! The inspector says I must use cast iron below grade...

I just checked with our local (part-time) plumbing inspector about how to tie into the existing 4¨ cast iron sewer line in my basement floor. He informed me that local code calls for leaded-in cast iron below grade (PVC is fine above grade). My problem is that I donĄ't believe I can get a cast iron Tee spliced and leaded into the existing buried sewer line. Doing so would require having some play in the buried pipe so that (after cutting out a section) I could slide the buried pipe back a few inches, drop in the Tee and slide the pipe into the female ends of the Tee.

Obviously there's not any play in a 20 foot section of buried cast iron pipe. It seems to me I'd have to exuvate and replace the buried pipe all the way back to the stack - through a finished basement room. Well that's NOT a viable option - just to comply with a long outdated plumbing code (no PVC below grade).

After nicely pointing out this issue to the inspector he said I could submit an alternate plan which he would review and rule on. So that's where you experts come in. I'd like to get your suggestions as to solutions commonly used in other parts of the country (I'm in the Chicago area). Please provide as much technical detail as possible so he'll know that I (we) have come up with a viable option.

My initial thoughts:

> Use a hub-less cast iron Tee. Will 4¨ hub-less mesh well with existing 4¨ cast iron?

> Use Standard PVC Tee with rubber boots and stainless steel bands.

> Use a special - higher grade PVC/Plastic Tee fitting which is specifically designed for below grade. Does such a thing exist? If so what is it called?

> LAST OPTION - Exuvate a couple of inches below the splice area - exposing the spliced in PVC Tee and then put concrete under it - effectively making it an above grade connection. I would of course concrete it all in after passing the inspection. (I'm joking on this one - I think)

I find it incredible that IĄŚm being told to use cast below grade and that "no one has ever complained about it" especially since the new sewer lines they are putting into our streets are bluish/green plastic. Seems that there's a double standard in place. But I won't complain too much yet because at least the inspector seems to have a possible open mind. I know that's not the case in many areas.

I'll be EXTREMELY grateful for all your responses!

Thanks!
Ed
 
  #2  
Old 09-27-02, 05:20 PM
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1) I doubt fernco's regardless of banding would be allowed underground.

2) Hub-less CI pipe will match as long as you have the same schedule, but see #1...

3) Schedule 80 is the name your looking for for the stronger, heavier PVC. But it is still PVC.


ASK THE INSPECTOR ABOUT ABS PIPING...
 
  #3  
Old 09-27-02, 10:09 PM
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1. You could use no hub fittings with MG couplings and service weight cast iron pipe.

2. You could use no hub pipe and no hub fittings with no hub couplings (with stainless steel bands).

3, you could use PVC pipe and fittings along with cast iron- plastic couplings to make the transition between cast & plastic.

Could be that the inspecter doesn't like to see a mixture of materials under ground. The only viable reason for demanding hubless pipe is if he wants service weight. Hard to beleive any code requires caulk joints, the industry went to hubless pipe long ago. The MG couplings have a rubber gasket like the no hub couplings but it has a cast body that bolts together, which makes it stronger than standard no hub couplings.
 
  #4  
Old 09-28-02, 12:56 AM
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Lead and okum joints were outlawed almost 40 years ago. (Just how "part-time" is this guy?) If he insists on you using cast iron pipe below grade, it will have to be no-hub. But ask him about using ABS. It is cheaper, easier to work with, and will last longer.
 
  #5  
Old 09-28-02, 08:30 PM
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I'm not so sure about being outlawed saw a plumber in Chicago using lead just last week
 
  #6  
Old 09-29-02, 08:39 PM
L
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That's Chicago -- This is CA. Where did he get the lead??
 
  #7  
Old 09-30-02, 10:07 AM
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In Chicago you must use cast iron bellow grade. You must also hire a licensed plumber, but that's another story. As far as I know plastic coupling are allowed (Fernco) to make the transition, I've seen it done in several houses I worked on (I'm not a plumber, just an electrician). Just cut the cast iron with a snapper, then insert your T. You can still buy the "lead" like bars from Menard and Home Depot, and they still sell a whole bunch of cast iron stuff.
 
  #8  
Old 09-30-02, 05:07 PM
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There you go. It appears that in Chicago, and possibly in all of Illinois, you are required to used lead and okum caulked joints below grade, and you can get the materials needed to make the joints. Do it!! Now, if you don't have the TOOLS needed to work with this material, it will be cheaper to hire a licensed plumber to do the job than it will be to oufit yourself with the propane tank, lead pot, compaction chisels, snap cutter, etc. and try doing it yourself. Renting the tools may be an option, but my guess is that would cost about what the plumber will charge, and HE (or she) will be doing all the work!
 
  #9  
Old 10-01-02, 09:15 AM
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Actually, in Chicago you can't use PVC at all. Bellow grade is all cast iron, above grade is either cast iron, copper or galvanized. For water lines you can use only copper. That's probably because the plumber union is very "influential"
 
  #10  
Old 10-01-02, 03:13 PM
edbreyer
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I've talked with the inspector...

THANKS FOR ALL THE EXCELLENT FEEDBACK...

Turns out the "inspector" I spoke to a few days ago is no longer handling the plumbing ispections. I spoke to the current (part-time) plumbing inspector today and it turns out that I do indeed need to use cast iron below grade but can use cast iron with "push gaskets" or no-hub with "Misson couplings".

He indicated that "Misson couplings" are what I refer to as rubber boots with stainless clamps (e.g. Fernco). However, I'm not familiar with push gaskets. It sounds like they are hubbed iron pipe with built in gaskets/seals. Can anyone confirm this?

From the sound of it, I think using a no-hub cast wye with the misson coupling is indeed the way to go. However, one or more of the suggestions I received mentioned no hub fittings with MG couplings and service weight cast iron pipe.

I don't understand the difference/benefit of "service weight" cast versus standard cast. ALSO would the MG fittings be that much harder to work with then the stainless Fernco type connections? It sounds like they might add an extra measure of quality.

FINALLY> When I transition from the cast iron to the above grade PVC - I believe I'll need to lead-in the PVC (forgot to ask - but I will). Although I have a friend who has done this before and will help - I'm hoping someone can provide a few pointers to make the job go a little easier. Or are their pre-made PVC to cast iron connectors that I can use?

Although I'd be willing to pay to have the PVC to Cast iron lead joint done professionally - getting a plumber in for such a small task is next to impossible around here.

By the way, I live in a suburb of Chicago and the codes are indeed a bit restrictive around here. For example, we still have to run conduit for all electrical wiring (no romex or over 3foot runs of armored cable). However, private residences in Chicago (and my town) no taller than 3 stories can now use PVC for DWV - that was like pulling teeth to get changed!

In my town (and I think Chicago too) you can work on your own house if you occupy it (not rental). So that's a good thing - not like some of the towns out East where the government feels they must protect people from themselves :^(

Thanks in advance for your replies! This site has once again been VERY helpful!

Ed
 

Last edited by edbreyer; 10-01-02 at 03:30 PM.
  #11  
Old 10-01-02, 04:34 PM
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For underground, no-hub couplings will do for you, above ground there is two ways to make the transition, one way is.

If you plan on using no-hub banded coupling if will require a special fitting called DWV No-Hub Connector for the transtion, looks like this, copy link to view it.

http://www.atozplumbing.com/4fc8c770.jpg

Or if inspector permits the use of the Rubber Ferno which does not need the special adaptor then make the transtion with it.
 
  #12  
Old 10-02-02, 08:39 AM
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A "push gasket" is a, for a lack of better terms, a plastic lead joint. You slide it over the end of the pipe, then you slide the whole thing into the other pipe. The rubber will then make the seal. This will only work if you, for example, are trying to connect a straight pipe to an elbow or a T (where one end of the pipe will go into the next).
 
 

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