Kitchen Sink Move

Reply

  #1  
Old 11-25-02, 04:37 PM
kbuilta
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Kitchen Sink Move

Hello,

I am doing a partial remodel of my kitchen which involves moving over the sink and the dishwasher about 5 feet along the same wall they are now. All plumbing is accessible from underneath in unfinished section of the basement and the wall in the kitchen can be broken into as well since I am redoing some drywall and can patch it up (besides it's going to be behind cabinets).

Water supply lines are copper and the drain lines appear to be cast iron. I've tried to make a picture to show the drain line as it appears in the basement (see URL below - I hope it works).

Picture

I'm not worried about the water supply lines, my main concern is how to deal with the drain.

The drain stands about a foot from the block basement wall and runs straight up from the floor. A line Y's off to the left to what I think is a drain for the dishwasher that is no longer used. Otherwise, it goes straight up then bends over the top of the block wall and then up again into the frame wall of the main floor above the basement. The line sprouts straight out from the wall in the kitchen.

What I think needs to be done is shown in the bottom part of the picture. Somehow cut this drain pipe and Y off to the right. Angle up until it is inline with the new location then go up and bend over the block wall and up the frame just as in the original position.

There is no apparent vent above the sink drain but I don't know this for 100% sure. There IS a vent nearby in the basement (the room in the basement is a bathroom). The vent sprouts from the floor a couple feet to the left of this kitchen sink drain and goes straight up through the frame wall and up through the roof. There is no visible connection between the kitchen drain and this vent except it seems likely that they connect to the same horizontal pipe below the basement floor.

Questions:
- Does this seem a reasonable thing to do?
- How do I cutoff the cast iron pipe (if that's even what I should be doing)?
- Must I put the new part in with cast iron or could I use plastic?
- How would I connect the new part to the cutoff pipe?
- Is it proper to have a plug on top of a Y fitting like I show in the bottom picture?
- Should I consider pulling the vertical drain out of the Y fitting near the floor and building up from there rather than cutting the cast iron pipe in the middle? If so, how do you pull pipes out of fittings?
- Does this new arrangement require some new venting of some kind?

Some idea of my plumbing abilities:
I've done lots of PVC piping (several outdoor sprinkler systems) and some sweat soldering of copper but I've never dealt with cast iron. I'm not afraid to try something new as long as I have some chance at success without investing the National Debt in special tools.

Thanks for comments and help.

Best Regards
 
  #2  
Old 11-25-02, 05:11 PM
L
Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arlington, WA
Posts: 9,238
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Your plan with the drain will work fine. Where your "miracle occurs here", you will use a Fernco coupling. That is a rubber coupling with 2 stainless steel bands -- one over the old pipe, and one over the new. Use a Sawzall to cut the cast iron pipe (slow speed and a metal cutting blade). All of the new pipe can be 1-1/2" ABS or PVC.

The issue will be to vent it properly. Once you have the drain line going vertically up the wall, behind the sink, install a sanitary tee and a trap adapter. Out the top of that tee is the vent line. Continue the same 1-1/2" pipe UP to a point above the top of the sink. From there, you can use elbows to get it over (horizontally)to an existing vent line. Tee it into that (a Fernco tee will work fine there too) and let it go on up through the roof.
 
  #3  
Old 11-25-02, 07:32 PM
Ragnar's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 1,349
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
You seem to be serious about doing this job given the time taken to get the picture online so I have a couple questions... what does the piping look like in the KITCHEN walls... you really should be fooling too much with the basement pipes if the piping in the kitchen walls is accessible.... That is the pipe I would like to see... Have you cut the back of your cabinet out yet? Specifically where the kitchen drain comes out of the wall...? Also, you dont show a p-trap in the basement for the kitchen sink, which means that the kitchen sink is nearly certain to be vented right behind the sink in the wall,... Is there a window over the kitchen sink now? Now looking at the kitchen sink drain from the front of the cabinet, does it come out closer to the right side of the sink? the left side of the sink? or more in the exact center?... Is the sink being moved right or left of its current location? If you haven't already, go ahead and cut out the back of the cabinet around the k-sink drain.... that is the most important part of what I need to know...
 
  #4  
Old 11-25-02, 10:13 PM
kbuilta
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Wink

Great ideas! Went to work whacking walls tonight and found the following setup. See http://mysite.verizon.net/web23z63/wall_plumbing.gif to see my hand sketch (scanned in this time to save drawing time!).

Looks like a cast iron rise through the wall to the point where a threaded fitting supports the drain stub under the sink. Up from there there is a brass or copper fitting that looks to be leaded into the cast iron. This fitting is sweat onto copper pipe that goes up a way then 90 degree toward where I know the main vent is. Sink drain stub is 18" from the floor, the top of the last cast iron fitting is 24" from the floor, and the horizontal vent after the copper 90 degree bend is 35" from the floor.

So...is there an easy way to tap into this to take the drain over (to the right in the drawing)? And maybe this way I don't need to mess with the vent? I reckon I'm up to cutting the copper pipe and sweating new fittings if needed or maybe better, adapting PVC?

Thanks!
 
  #5  
Old 11-26-02, 08:04 AM
kbuilta
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
One other detail I forgot to include in the last post...the threaded coupling from the cast iron where the sink drain stub comes from protrudes through the wall surface. I doubt that I can "simply" use that coupling, turn the corner, and pipe over to the new sink location because it would intrude terribly into the cabinet space. I'm going to have to break into that pipe stack from the side somehow if I do it in the kitchen wall.

In fact, how do I break into this and still maintain 1/4" per foot slope? The new sink location is about 4 feet to the right in the latest picture so the drain will need to be about an inch higher at the new location than wherever it connects at the original stack, right? I meant to measure my sink to get an accurate measure of how far above the floor the drain entrance is but it's a pretty deep sink, and a disposal, too. I assume that the stub needs to be below the sink drain (with the trap in between, of course).

Thanks for the help!
 
  #6  
Old 11-26-02, 04:13 PM
L
Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arlington, WA
Posts: 9,238
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The tee that the sink trap empties into -- cut it out totally, below it's bottom hub. You can use a Fernco tee in it's place, and it will be a couple of inches lower than the present tee is. Simply turn the Fernco tee 90 degrees to keep every thing in the wall. That will give you more than enough fall in the drain line. Since you are only going 4' to the right, the vent is fine in it's present location.

To tie the vent in, sweat a 1-1/2" female thread adapter onto the copper, and use a 1-1/2" ABS nipple with a male thread adapter to screw into it. The other end of that nipple will slip into the top of the Fernco tee.
 
  #7  
Old 11-26-02, 04:39 PM
kbuilta
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Smile

Straight forward sounding description. I'll give it a try and post the results. Thanks again for the advice.
 
  #8  
Old 12-07-02, 06:31 AM
kbuilta
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Talking

Finally got to do this work and it worked like a charm. The only "stopper" was I had to rent a chain cutter for the cast iron drain pipe, a Sawzall just made nice, shiny lines on the surface of the pipe. The chain cutter popped it in about 5 minutes.

Thanks again to the great help and advice.
 
  #9  
Old 12-07-02, 11:29 PM
Ragnar's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 1,349
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yeah, I meant to warn you about that... I saw where someone told you to cut it with a sawzall on slow speed and it would just ZIP through it... they must build a lot of houses in FANTASY LAND!
I paid $345 for my pair of ratchet chain cutters, and I still sleep with them under my pillow... best purchase I made last year...
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: