New house rough in

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  #1  
Old 12-26-02, 07:17 AM
davedaman
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New house rough in

Good Morning Gentlemen,
I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas and got all the tools and stuff on your wish lists! I need help in deciding how to run my hot and cold supply lines in a new single story house. I like the simplicity and convenience of the Manablock system and PEX feed line but have some doubts about the longevity and reliability of the PB tubing. Seems to be alot of controversy on the fitting leakage. The cost is also somewhat more than conventional CPVC and PVC. I think I will run the PVC; but in what configuration? My situation is as follows: Local rural water supply is approximately 200' from house and I already have 3/4" S40 PVC in the ground from meter can at easment to utility room. This local service is somewhat reliable but is prone to outages and frequent pressure drops. (another story)
I have two baths and a kitchen to feed and all have 6" plumbing walls. Should I feed all with a main 3/4" line and branch out from there? Also, none of my D/W/V is roughed in yet! Any insight would be appreciated. Thank you all and have a safe and happy new year!
 
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Old 12-26-02, 07:24 AM
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Well we have questions?

What is the pressure at the meter?

What is the elevation from the meter to the house, up or down hill from it?

Number of fixtures in house to enclude hose bibbs?

Your code book dictates the size of the service and it's branches, without this info we can not tell you what size you need.

3/4 Line 200' from the meter may not be large enough.
 
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Old 12-26-02, 08:04 AM
davedaman
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follow up on new house rough in

Thanks for the reply! Here is my response to your questions (in order):

1.)I do not know the pressure at the meter as the tap in is not done yet but I can assume it is probably going to be around 30 PSI.

2.) Elevation is three foot rise from tap at street to floor of house in utility room

3.) Two water closets, two tub/showers, two lavs, two hose bibs, one kitchen sink, one icemaker at fridge, one washer tap.

4.) CODE BOOK! What code book? If I were rich and famous I could afford to have a qualified plumber come and do all this for me and thereby not having to search these DIY forums.

5.) I agree that the 3/4" may be marginal for my needs. Maybe I should replace this with 1"

Plumber2000...I am not trying to be contrary here; just searching for knowledge to help me in my endeavors with this project. I am disabled and on a fixed social security income which neccessitates some frugality with what $ I do have to spend on my new home. If you need more details I will post them as soon as I get them from you. I am going to call the water company for pressure info as soon as I am "off-line". Only one phone!!!!!!!
 
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Old 12-26-02, 08:16 AM
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Ok thanks, yes we need to know what that pressure will be at the meter.

The code book I don't lnow which one you use, we use UPC here in Oregon.

Maybe if Oldguy reads this he can say what code is used there.

I hops Oldguy can answer a few question for me about Texas Codes.

Once you know what the pressure will be at the meter, we can determine what sive the service will need to be.

If you say it will be 30psi, thats not good enough, and you might need a pump to help rise that pressure level. but this depends on what they tell you the pressure will be.


The rise of 3' will not amount to too much pressure lose, the icemaker really has nothing to do with the sizing, as soon as you can get the info get back to me.

I take it you have permits

Sizing properly is needed to pass the inspection.
 
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Old 12-26-02, 08:35 AM
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It appears Texas has recently began to use the ICC code. After finding out the answers to plumber 2000 questions call an inspection department. Since the entire state of Texas uses the ICC version of the plumbing code any plumbing inspector in Texas ought to be able to tell you what the sizes should be by the book. If you have a permit and intend to get it inspected then call the place where you pulled the permit. I think what plumber 2000 is trying to say is in Oregon (where he resides and works) and many other states use the UPC version of the plumbing code and he could tell you exactly how to do it that way. It would be preferable to do it by the book where you live. There may be suttle differences like the type of pipe allowed locally that could have a huge impact on the quality and longevity of your work. No one on this or any forum could possibly know all the ins and outs of every locallity. So Plumber 2000 is correct as usual and he really is looking out for your best interest on this project. Also it appears the UPC is far more a more restrictive code in general. Water pipe requirments appear to be very similar. A good website to read about the differences is:
http://www.pmmag.com/
He appears to try and take the politics out of the two main competing plumbing codes the UPC and the IPC.

I hope this helps.

Good Luck
 

Last edited by John Dillinger; 12-26-02 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 12-26-02, 03:16 PM
davedaman
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New house rough in

Thanks for the input John and yes Plumber2000 is correct with the code issue but in my particular situation it does not apply. East Texas is very, very rural and my Septic permit is covering the supply issue as far as permitting is concerned. I called my local water supplier and they informed me that the pressures were 36-38 (low side) and 58-60 (high side). They also assured me that the 200' run of 3/4" PVC would be more than adequate between the meter and the house at 36"-42" of elevation. Now my question is this: How shall I run the distribution system under the house? Run 3/4" to the two baths, kitchen and laundry and then 1/2" to each fixture?. I have an Isometric Drawing of the D/W/V but not the fresh supply.
 
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Old 12-26-02, 03:44 PM
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Since it will not matter this is what I recommend.

Your option

That distance and that many fixture units which I caculate 26 total fixture units, UPC tell me service would need to be 1-1/4" for the line between the meter and house


but............


If it were me, I'd run at least 1" service line to the house, reduce to 3/4" at house feed branch down to fixtures 3/4" once you get to water heater cold branch, reduce to 3/4", run hot at 3/4" and reduce at the fixtures, no more the 2 fixtures on one 1/2" branch.

PVC outside and CPVC inside the foundation.

 
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Old 12-26-02, 04:03 PM
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[SIZE=4]Ahemmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!![/SIZE]
Looking down, Rolling eyes , tapping nails on desk.. Ouch!!!!!!!!!
I BROKE A NAIL.. GOOD MORNING GENTLEMEN???????????
BTW I get tools toooooooo!!!
Laughing

Hope everyone had a safe holiday
 
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Old 12-26-02, 04:06 PM
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Well, I hate to admit this openly in a public forum but I am in 100% agreement with Plumber2000... 1 1/4" is what is recommended in International Plumbing Code also, but with that few units on it, I think 1" is more than enough... Your meter (tap) is likely to be 3/4" anyway... As to inside, CPVC for everything hot and cold... PVC is not rated for hot water anyway, and you dont want to run two different types of pipe in the house anyway, it simply takes longer... Buy your CPVC from Lowe's or a Plumbing supply store,... all the CPVC you get should be FLOWGUARD GOLD, don't get any off name brands, they just aren't as good... specifically Coastline Plastics comes to mind as a very brittle brand of CPVC not to use... Anyway, as to the PEX, I would tell you to construct a birdhouse out of it, but I am afraid some bird may get killed in the collapse one day... When I see it being put in houses and lasting for 25+ years, I may begin to feel different about it... It is virtually the same in installation to the old POLY crap, but is much less chemically reactive than the POLY was and therefore should hold up better (but I will believe it when I see it)... As to the Manablock system, while it is a helpful in some ways... It still creates a need for a tremendous amount more pipe in a system than a standard system, and since we don't have a real verdict on PEX yet, there is no way I would want 3 miles of that stuff in my own home... CPVC can be run off a manifold if you were just intent on it, but would be a waste of money in my opinion... My recommendation is that since you will naturally have individual shut-offs at all the sinks, toilets and appliances, go the extra mile and make sure you have shut-offs to the tubs in an accessible location, and if it is practical, isolate the bathroom groups and kitchen group with valves too... The purpose is that one day, when your fine new system develops problems, you want to be able to isolate different areas without turning off all the water to the house... And finally, drainage is much more complex than water, so you might want to get some rough drawings together and begin to ask more specific questions about it... It is virtually impossible to tell you all you need to know from the ground up without some background first... Where are the bathrooms located in relation to the kitchen? to each other? to the main? Are you on sewer? septic? etc. etc... Hope it all goes well...

p.s. I just built a house with my father out in rural Georgia and they don't even have an inspection department for the plumbing/ electrical/ hvac... The only thing they send someone out for is the septic drain field... I am not saying not to worry about code, but amongst the 100's of us answering you, we can make sure you are safe, healthy and funtional with the plumbing (which is all the code is designed to protect to begin with)...
 
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Old 12-26-02, 05:24 PM
davedaman
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Thank you all so very much for your knowledge and opinions. I will play with all info and come up with a workable plan and advise all of my progress. And... Lost Blonde, I am really sorry for omitting you fine lady folk in my opening thread

Happy Holidays All!!!!
 
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Old 12-26-02, 05:31 PM
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I'm in shock.

Call an ambulance, don't think I can handle Ragnar agreeing with me.

 
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Old 12-27-02, 07:48 PM
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tiz ok JUst had to do it its the blonde in me LOL
 
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