DWV vets, please help me rough in new venting

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  #1  
Old 04-23-03, 01:46 AM
InspectorJ
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dwv questions

Ill try to make a very long story asap, [as short as possible] for everyones sake, because its getting crazy over here! APT. refers to the garage studio room from now on, ok?? :}

I have a drawing available of the situation. Maybe that can help everyone concerned get a visualization of these problems with this DWV setup. Dont know how to upload it though so I guess email is the only way??

Ok, I believe this used to be a garage that someone made into a room with bathroom, kitchen, etc., like a studio to rent out... The shower one day fills up. This is the lowest fixture/drain, I believe, that connects to a galvanized 1 1/2" branch drain running underground to the soil stack in front of house. Now this shower fills up with water when your using the actual kitchen sink, the apt. bathroom sink, and/or the apt. kitchen sink.:{ All these fixtures in the apt. room are directly on the other side of the wall in which I face and explain the situation from.[This shower did this 1 time a year ago, and a 75 ft. snake was needed to free the drain.] Now it happened again when I tried to drain my washer into the same line that ALL of the above are connected too. Again the same snake was deployed and it DID free the foul, extremely toxic and stinky deadly sewer water. YUK!!

THE PROBLEM I NOTICED NOW is when I tested the washer spin/ drain cycle again, the shower still fills up, and has to slowly drain away. There still is a bad smell and its not cool, because I smell it in my living room. My moms says there is not a trap under there. She has worked with the tiling on the shower floor. Ok guys here are the questions!!!!!!!!!

1. Looking at the roof, I see only 2, 1 1/2" vent stacks, I think the main roof stack was too far to tap into. Also, I DO know now that the other stack, in which Ill hardly speak of probably, is most likely dedicated to my actual/ main kitchen sink. Heres that question-
Do you think these vent stacks run by themselves straight to the roof, or do you think they connect to my main roof stack ALSO, which is pretty far away in distance? Isnt this why they ran these 1 1/2 inch "secondary stacks" on this side of the house, vertically, to avoid the hassle of connecting to the main stack?? I see different diagrams and am confused about this.

2. I dont know if I connected the washers standpipe to this drain line high enough. The standpipe I connected is very tall however, dont get me wrong, but does it matter how high it connects to the secondary stack/ drain line? It connects at the far high end of a "horizontal" drain line that slopes downward towards the left, then hooks up with the apt. bathroom sink, [DIRECTLY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WALL], then finally joins with the metal 1 1/2 secondary vertical stack via sanitary fitting. This goes straight upwards, through the roof and also serves of course as the branch drain going downwards into the ground. That isnt all, stay focused guys!

Now refering to the same thing, directly under the sanitary fitting in which the washer discharge and APT. bathroom sink are draining into this 1 1/2" stack, without any spacing between the 2, there is ANOTHER SANITARY FITTING, allowing the APT. kitchens sink to drain also. Now this drain line is sloping downwards towards the right and I can see it is sloping more than normal, to connect to the lower sanitary fitting on the 1 1/2 stack. Remember, stack is in middle, Apt. kitchen sink located leftside of stack is sloping downwards to stack. And then to the rightside of the stack, there is also the washer standpipe and then the Apt. bathroom sink, draining and sloping downwards of course, to the sanitary t fitting which is directly on top of the other one. "SHWEW" This is going to be hard and I am trying to be descriptive but also as simple as possible. Please bear with me. :}

I failed to explain the actual kitchen sinks drain connection didnt I? Well its is on the wall to the left, pretty far away, but IT DOES ALSO USE THIS SAME STACK TO DRAIN INTO. Above this fixture is where the other vent stack is, its not directly above the kitchen sink, the main kitchen sink that is, but towards the right a bit. I think because I the window that is located above the kitchen sink, how could one run a vent stack in a wall if a window is located right there, which brings up another question, ahh. Here it is-

3.Does secondary venting have to run vertically upwards "inline" with the fixtures drain or p trap or anything like that?

4.I read alot that "As with other wet-vented drains, the standpipes pipe must enter the drainpipe above the highest fixture drain."
I want to know if this is only for standpipes or all pipes being connected to an existing drainpipe? Also, WHAT IS CONSIDERED THE HIGHEST FIXTURE DRAIN anyways? Are they talking about the drain that you see in your sink, when looking down while brushing your teeth, or are they talking about pipe beyond the sink trap and where ever it might connect to the horizontal, sloping drain pipe? Damn I dont even know how to explain this one, this is a SINGLE STORY HOME REMEMBER.

5. I am currently uncovering whats underneath the showers flooring, because I need to atleast install a trap because it stinks. I hope I am doing the right thing, and hope it isnt because of the way I introduced and connected the washers draining pipe to what was in front of my face. Now I know for a fact that the toilet in this apt. bathroom has a seperate huge, pvc drainpipe sloping to the stack. It runs underneath the shower there and it is the only fixture on it. I dont know if it needs a vent stack, does it? How big does the vent stack have to be if so? What should I connect to this drain pipe to make things right? I was thinking the washers discharge because my washer drain a high volume of water it seems. Well actually, I guess the way it is right now would be just fine, except my shower in the apt room wants to fill up with water, why you ask, IDONTKNOW!!! I have to go but will be checking up. Need to develop pics and relax. Hope the someone is nice enough to take time to help a stranger out. I would never forget about that!:}

David, 24, Las Vegas.
 
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  #2  
Old 04-23-03, 07:19 AM
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Cool

It would be better if the washer discharged to a 2" line, but if you snake all of the drain lines that you can and use a non-caustic enzyme-based drain cleaner like DrainCare, you may solve most of your problems.
Sounds like the washer discharge may be overloading the drain line.
The shower definitely needs a trap, and the line should be vented after the trap (the vent line doesn't have to be directly above it).
Those "secondary vents" are not tied into the main dwv stack due to distance.
For general info, the old rules-of-thumb are that the total vents should equal the size of main drain line, all fixtures should be trapped to prevent sewer gas (a toilet has a built-in trap), and drain lines should slope 1/4" per linear foot toward the main drain line.
Try a good snaking and the DrainCare, add the shower trap, and see if that doesn't help your situation.
Good Luck!
Mike
 
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Old 04-23-03, 08:27 PM
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Also, the washer puts out tons more water at one time than any of the other fixtures you mentioned and that is why it shows up as a problem more than other fixture use... Also, it is VERY common for a kitchen sink and a washing machine to share a drain/vent... It is called a continuous waste and vent system... You SINK is what is causing all the problems... All the food waste has the sink line all gunked up and the washing machine is now trying to drain through a very small opening... The standpipe you have on the washing machine is probably sufficient... Also, the vents go out the roof individually because it was easier than running over to the main vent to tie on... They should do one or the other but NOT both... They just have to terminate to the open air or tie to a vent that does... Also, where you see the sink drain go into the wall, it goes into an arm that turn either left or right and hits the stack... The stack goes up one side or the other which is why the drain appears to go out right under a window, but is still vented...Whew!... Now, recollect your thoughts with all your newfound wisdom incorporated into them, and get back to us with any further questions...
 
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Old 04-23-03, 11:58 PM
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have somebody competent clean the drain line again. If it drained alright at one time, it should do so again. Don't worry about all that other mumbo jumbo unless you are planning to remodel.

Shine a flashlight down the shower drain. If you see water then it has a trap, if you see not water then add one. Use the same size drain as the existing drain line.
 
  #5  
Old 04-24-03, 06:17 AM
InspectorJ
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Unhappy yeah right, Im still stuck on what to do, heres a drawing though:}

Heys buddies. You guys make me happy trying to answer that long message. Hey, Ive been trying to work up a visual for you guys to look at, so you can tell me what and how to do this.
-You know this connection for the wahers standpipe is new. Ive never seen it work properly. Remember the first time I used my washer, [Ive been without one ever since we moved in, about 2 years], I THOUGHT the draining was ok, i was very happy, until I turned around to see a flood coming from , well, it came from the t, youll see it in the sketch

-
 
  #6  
Old 04-24-03, 07:46 AM
InspectorJ
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heres the access the my dwv image

Ok, I went all out and made a homepage just to post the image onto just so that my buiddies here can see whats going on with the dwv in the garage converted room. Hope you understand what the situation is:

http://hometown.aol.com/seraloo/myhomepage/index.html
 
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Old 04-24-03, 05:29 PM
InspectorJ
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DWV vets, please help me rough in new venting

Dont even know if I asked the right question. Man, I totally respect plumbers now. I thought they were dumb for some reason, or I guess not that smart... Yeah right, this is very critical, geez.
If you dont mind going to this homepage to see the image I drew which almost exactly gives you the visual idea of what the added on bathrom DWV system is looking like. I need help on tying into the 3 or 4 " toilet horizontal drain you see there. Im not even shure if its vented. Would a toilet still work if it was not vented? HMMMMMM. oK, so I wanna do this so that my washer discharges into the cities sewer system, without backing up the shower stall badly.
http://hometown.aol.com/seraloo/myhomepage

Oh also, I need advice on the way that shower drain is connected to the drain underground,, Is it even approaching the drain it connects to in the right dierection?? To me, it seems wrong because its kinda draining against the drains drain direction. lol. I told you plumbing is not even a game. This might be something to learn and make money from. Becoming a brother of the hood. It might be easier that joing the brotherhood of electricians, you think? Ahh back to the important stuff sorry,

Oh, yes, can someone please confirm where to tye into this toilets drainpipe, and with what?? I have no problem running the vent stack up throught the top, lets just do it right this time. This washer puts out a high volume of water when draining, and wouldnt want the person renting out this apt to go through some ghetto sh t like that.. I could run a 3 inch up a wall somewhere if that would be better too.
thanks guys, diy is the best. I never even knew about this site, even though my mother kept telling me about it. Geez, peaple come with help over here. later
Davidj

http://hometown.aol.com/seraloo/myhomepage
 
  #8  
Old 04-24-03, 06:50 PM
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Well, I hate to say it, but the situation is still the same -- you have a stopped up drain... It is not uncommon to have a trap made under a shower with galvanized fittings... Especially an old basement shower... Also, the shower doesn't have to drain in the direction of the other main... It only has to have grade... It can be run in a spiral as long as it goes downhill... The traps you show are fine as far as height... You just need to unstop the drain by running a snake down it... It worked before and will work again... The sink line is probably the culprit (the kitchen sink, that is), so if you can't get it clean enough that the washer doesn't cause a backup, then it may need to be replaced, but save yourself any more effort figuring out your plumbing system... It appears basically correct... The reason I know that you have a partial backup is from what you say is happening... If the washer backs up into the shower, but then it "slowly drains down", then it means that the washer is pumping out more water than the drain can handle... If the problem had to do with venting or with the drain's running uphill, then the shower would keep the water in it after it gets there because it would not be able to go uphill... Also, just because you move the washer to the main line (which is not as easy as it sounds), it won't change the fact that the sink/shower line is gradually getting worse... One day soon, the kitchen sink will be backing up in the shower and the shower won't drain at all... Unstop the drain and forget the rest...


By the way, I merged your threads to keep it simple... Same topic, same thread...
 

Last edited by Ragnar; 04-24-03 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 04-24-03, 11:20 PM
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Absolutely! always try the simple solution first before doing major surgery. I looked at your drawing...Your shower drain..or is that a floor drain does not appear to be vented. Your wet venting, it shoud have it's own dedicated vent line that supplies air to it before the drain joins with the others.

Still, get a good rooter guy out there. Try that first.
 
  #10  
Old 04-25-03, 03:11 PM
InspectorJ
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Your shower drain..or is that a floor drain does not appear to be vented. Your wet ve

Your shower drain..or is that a floor drain does not appear to be vented. Your wet venting, it shoud have it's own dedicated vent line that supplies air to it before the drain joins with the others.
Pauly, so how do I hook up a vent to this? I am sorry, I guees the its all confusing, but still, we had a guy snake it,and it still is too small for everything inluding washer.

Since I already air hammered the shower floor, I see no P trap. So should I install it?? Or is the way it is now ok? And how many ft. of snake is good enough would you say? Would the toilet still work if it wasnt vented because its kinda slow and dont know if there is a 2 inch vent connected somewhere. Ahh man Im getting stressed out. are those cobra drill sewer snake that are 25 ft, are those cool? later
 
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Old 04-26-03, 12:56 PM
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Well, it is a possibility that the shower was added later and was not revented as it should have been, but you said in your drawing post that you didn't know for sure where the shower drain went... Also, you said that you saw where they seemed to be a trap made of elbows, which is sufficient... Also, you never answered whether you could see water in the shower drain when you look down into it, which will tell you if you have a trap on it... And if you didn't have a trap on the shower drain, you would have a tremendously bad smell from the main sewer line all the time... A washing machine is only a 1" discharge... It will work fine on a 2" line... It doesn't need to be run to the main... If you do that, you will have to revent it... Also, your shower has no trouble draining it, so why cut in a vent for it (which it might not need), just to have the washing machine still backing up into it... My suggestion is to call a plumber out to give you a free estimate on straightening out some of the confusion for you... While he is out there looking, pick his brain on info about the overall hookups... A 25' snake is not nearly enough... a 50' would be the bare minimum... You are not trying to cleanout the washing machine line... What you want is to snake the line from the kitchen sink all the way to the main line, from the shower trap to the main line, and from the washing machine trap to the main line if necessary... The kitchen sink line is the most important of the three since it is the most likely culprit... And don't get it in your head that a 2" line is too small for a washing machine... Straight from the code book, a 2" line will carry 21 fixture units... A washing machine is equal to 2 fixture units... That means you could have 10 washing machines on that line if it were not stopped up... Someone has lived in that house for a long time with functional drainage and just because it is now backing up is no reason to go back and suspect that all the plumbing was put in wrong... Anyone that had the skill to put in that much cast iron piping likely knew far more about plumbing than you do, so I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they left you with a functional system that is ready for some routine maintenance...
 
  #12  
Old 04-28-03, 08:08 PM
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Hey guys, I have a problem now. The area of shower flooring that was hammered away, well what should I do to check, after the snaking that will take place tommorrow, to check if the drain opened up at all? I mean to say, if the snake job doesnt work, I dont want water to fill up the bare concrete hole there on the floor, so should I cover it somehow? And wont it still come up, the washer discharging, wont that start overflowing out of the next lowest opening?

The washer discharge fills up faster than my toilet can empty it. I tried to dischargeinto the toilet yesterday, and it was barely staying within the toilet. With suds, the toilet would have overflowed.

The traps angles arent enough to actually block the drain and trap smell. what must I do.

Also, how would I vent that shower drain, it hooks up somehow to the drain underneath the ground there somehow, and the only stack to roof is what you see in pic. Will adding the vent make a difference in the shower draining time? Will it be alot better if the vent stack to roof is bigger perhaps? Ive already went this far, tore the holes in the wall and such, so if any mods to this would be better, please tell me what those mods are so I could think about making the system better here. Also, That T you see by the roof stack pipe to the left, that is a regular T. And this is the better place to snake from now that the washer and dryer are in the way of that entry point, which is where we came in from last backup of shower. Now that T was left uncovered on top, and the first time trying the washer, it overflowed at this point with water and suprised me like h_ll! Should I replace it with a t that bends a bit so that snake has a smotther entry, or will this be usable to insert snake??? And last, should I glue in this opening I speak of, a cap? thanks guys and wish me luck because tommorrow Flavie comes through with the same 75 ft snake, but this time he'll bring the attachments he has never brought. He only has used the usual end that the hand snakes you see come with. Is the attachment were looking for the claw looking one? and how bug should it be, dont want to break one of these in the line under the ground for shure!!

Ahh I hope this works.
 
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Old 04-28-03, 08:27 PM
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The shower is already vented correctly... Do not revent it... The opening in the floor should not be a problem... If you are standing there when the test is done there is no reason why you should get too much water in the floor and if you do, the foundation has gravel and vapor barrier under it, and it shouldn't hurt to get a little moisture under it... The 75 footer will work but don't go with the big tips first... Go with a spear head first and see if that does it... The bigger tips can definitely get hung up and then you can have REAL problems... The vent is big enough, the tee is fine, don't change it, but you asked about putting a cap over it? and you said that water came out of it? Why is that tee open? And if it is open, then THAT is the source of your smells... Yes, put a cleanout plug there somehow for future use... And the trap is fine, if you can see water then it has a trap, and if it has a trap, then the trap is working fine... A person that knows how to put a galvanized trap under a basement shower in the concrete knows how to put the trap in correctly... And the toilet is not designed for that type of drainage... It depends on siphonage and a vortex of water to drain properly... It is not surprising that it seemed to back up with the washer pumping into it... Quit fretting and just get the drain unstopped, then get back to us... I feel your pain, I really do... but sometimes it is just better to call in the cavalry and you may have reached that point if your buddy doesn't get it flowing again...
 
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Old 04-29-03, 07:20 PM
InspectorJ
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Ragnar

OK Ragnar bud, I will call in the calvary, and good thing its a friend that ll do a friend a favor, because money is soo low right now. Thanks for your concern, and wise words buddy. You know I must also say, why is it then Ragnar that when I covered the shower drain with my kitties "glow ball" which fits perfectly in the hole to seal it, all the smell seemed to go away? Hey, I will post new pics for yall on that homepage right now. Ill post here though when its ready to view ok? Oh today Flavio was supposed to come through to snake it with his companies 75ft. snake, but yesterday his wife gave birth to the second baby. Man, I hope he doesnt forget about me. The kitchen sink side of the drain line is having a problem now.
 
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Old 04-29-03, 07:33 PM
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Here is what I think... The vent stack you show in your drawing serves as the vent for several fixtures, including the washer... It also has a sink on it... The sink has stopped the drain up almost completely, which means nothing drains like it should, but ALSO since it serves as the vent for the other fixtures, the VENT for those fixtures is clogged... So some fixture, or maybe even all of the fixtures have to pull air from somewhere else... They can't get air from the vent, so they suck the water from the shower trap, leaving it partially open... Now you get smells from the shower... One of the PRIMARY functions of vents is to keep the traps from getting siphoned out by other fixture's drawing water through them... Your system looks completely code, and just looks to be a case where it is stopped up... I am not saying that it is not an off possibility that you have other issues, but I am saying that you can not effectively diagnose your other problems until you get the drain working again... Don't be surprised if you find that all the other symptoms are directly related to the stoppage however... My intent was not to be insulting before when I said that the original plumber had more knowledge about plumbing than you... I was only making the point that when a customer is trying to give a description of what they see, they often make judgements as to the workmanship of the plumbing... When there is a question as to what you have plumbed in your house, I have to give the plumber the benefit of the doubt... Anyone that had the skill to put cast iron and galvanized drain piping in would have been very knowledgeable indeed, and would be virtually certain to know how to run the plumbing... After you get the drain looked at again, get back to us and let us know what else you find...
 
  #16  
Old 04-29-03, 11:05 PM
InspectorJ
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ok I got the real pics up on my homepage

Ragnar, and everyone, check it out, new images for everyone, :}.

http://hometown.aol.com/seraloo/myhomepage/index.html
 
  #17  
Old 04-29-03, 11:14 PM
InspectorJ
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Ragnar

I thankyou again. I know that whoever did instal the galvanized stuff knew what they were doing of course, but that was when the house was first built. Whoever converted the garage into a room and added these fixtures to the existing system, well, I dont think they really cared too much. Look at the pics, it looks shady to me. Its kinda scary to me, because the electrical isnt straped to 2 by 4's its like spaghetti, it pisses me off actually. Hey let me know what you think of these pics ok, it took a while to set this up for your viewing please Ragnar!
Later
 
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Old 05-01-03, 05:43 PM
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Well the pictures make it far more clear... However, the shower is NOT trapped, but it also is not run in galvanized piping... It is run in pvc, which makes all the difference... The elbow with the ball in it should be cut out and replaced with a 2" glue trap to allow for a shower... That will take care of the smell problem... Other than that, it looks like you just had a stopped up drain... The tee is good to have there, but it should have a cleanout plug in it so that you don't get smells from there... I would run the snake in that are before I closed everything up though... The tee that is there is the proper tee because it is designed to allow you to snake both directions if needed... The other type of tee in the picture is generally not supposed to be run on it's side... Leave the tee...
 
  #19  
Old 05-03-03, 10:52 AM
InspectorJ
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Ragnar its not a 2" drain

Ragnar Hi. Flavio still has not come by. And I meant to say that the showers drain size isnot a 2 incher, it actually is a 1 1/2 inch diameter drain. Im goin to have to chisel deeper to fit it though. It makes me wonder why they didnt put one in in the first place, I hope this doesnt affect the showers drain in any way.
Is a 1 1/2" drain still good to go for this shower Ragnar?
 
  #20  
Old 05-03-03, 12:30 PM
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It is virtually impossible for me to get a scale on the size of your piping from the pictures... So, I will just take your word for it... If it is 1.5", then it is sufficient for a tub/shower combo but it will NOT be big enough for a standard shower... A standard shower will have a 2" drain opening on it and therefore should have a 2" trap and 2" arm to the mainline... Dig it up further if you intend to put a shower in that location and change it to 2"... When you get it uncovered enought to work on you might send along some more pics as an update... Let us know...
 
  #21  
Old 05-03-03, 02:41 PM
InspectorJ
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Ragnar,

whats the difference between the shower styles you spoke of?

AND, I dont know about digging that line up all the way dude, because I am very shure Ill hit a supply line because they are located around the same area I would have to dig up if I had to totallly uncover that shower drain line, it leads towards everything you see in tose pics, where everything meets up, but just underneath surface somewhere. The supply lines scare me.
 
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Old 05-03-03, 07:11 PM
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What I mean is that a fixture that is a SHOWER only, either a tile or a fibreglass unit, is going to have a 2" drain... and code requires a 2" drain for a shower only in my neck of the woods... If you put in a TUB ONLY, or a TUB/SHOWER combo, like the standard 5 foot fibreglass tub/shower combos, then it will have a 1.5" drain.... You can't decrease the size of a drain, so if your shower has a 2" outlet, you can't connect it to a 1.5" drain line... In that case, you would have to go all the way to the main, and change the 1.5" to 2"... Otherwise, consider putting in a tub/shower combo instead of a standup shower...
 
  #23  
Old 05-06-03, 09:38 PM
InspectorJ
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update, not looking good guys

Ok to whom it may concern, this is getting hectic!! I rented a snake from hd. It squeeks and I dont know why I left the building with it, but the nice lady had already done paperwork and I thought it wouldnt be a problem, but it is definitly irritating.

Now after snaking for a while with a spade attachment, trying to scrap out as much as possible, I tested to see if the same original problem was solved. Oh I didnt use the claw attachment because it was having a hard time moving into the line. I was afraid it would cause more problems if I forced it. I think what I needed was or IS a "half of a claw" attachment. Ive seen one and think it could advance into the drain effectivly scraping out gunk on the inner drain pipe walls. Ive also seen claws with thinner, more flexible claw pieces, but with my luck, I didnt get any of these. Oh well. I do believe however that Ragnar, my helpful buddy, is right about how a good pipe scraping could fix the problem. I did also use hot water while I did the snaking. Ragnar, and everyone, when pulling the cable back into the machine, I did notice that the cable was black with some type of slime that stunk. Why is this stuff so black? Ok so this is what happened:

I tried to drain the washer by filling washer on lowest water level setting and then turning it to the drain cycle. I went into the apt on other side of this wall to watch to see if the shower would fillup again, and guess what, it did! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
"Babes, turn it off, turn it off!!"

I am stressed out now and will post new pics of this operation, showing what else is new, and it is nothing but stress. I know I can do the labor myself, but will continue to need Ragnars and everyone elses opinions and wisdom on how to accomplish this.

Also, I will attempt to snake from inside the house, in the cabinet inserting the snake into that T you all saw on my homepage which is now turning into a book. This thread is turning into a book also. I hope it helps someone though with similar problems/questions.

Stay tuned, and check up on my homepage, Im updating it after this. It will have new pictures, Oh by the way, Ragnar, I was able to free the leftover material from that cleanout. I believe it was a piece of the cleanout plug. Ill post a pic of that. I used a dremel with a cutting wheel to slice some material off, then used a wrench to take the leftover piece out. It worked nicely and I was happy, until the shower did the same thing.:{

Ok check out the new pic also, which will show leakage from somewhere. youll see.

Please help me guys, to the end. It will be a crazy mission Ill tell ya.

Ill just post a new reply again here when I update the homepage, peace.
 
  #24  
Old 05-07-03, 06:38 PM
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InspectorJ...

I stick to my original contention, that you have a stopped up drain and you need to snake it... The spade is probably sufficient, but you just have not gone far enough in... Quit switching back and forth from cleanouts... Use the one that you found with the brass plug in it... Use the spade and run it all the way in... 100'... don't use less... Go all the way in 100'... It is hard work and very nasty... The black gunk you are getting is the crap that the kitchen sink line gets in the line, and that is why I say it is responsible for the problem... Have the shower sitting there with water backed up in it while you are snaking... Then when you break through the stoppage, the water in the shower will run out and you will know that you are done... Once you get through the the stoppage, go back and forth a few times for good measure... I don't use the scraping type attachments because they are VERY prone to get hung up... I used to work at Home Depot, and a guy once brought in a car bumper with the cable still attached because he tried to snatch the cable out when he got it hung up...

Also, don't rent from Home Depot... The machine they rent sucks... Get one from Nation's Rent (the one at Lowe's), or got to a local rental and get a decent machine with a stiff 3/4" cable... Use good leather gloves, preferrably with metal studs in them so they don't get wrapped up... Keep someone nearby when you are working to help you get the machine in reverse if you get your fingers wrapped up in the cable... Send away if you have anymore questions...
 
  #25  
Old 05-10-03, 04:18 PM
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ragnar, here some more

ok, I just am now able to post what I wanted to post days ago. So here it goes.

Ragnar and all, I tried to snake all day with spade tool, slowly manuevering allthe way through back and forth to try and get everything I could. Now heres the bad news,.

it still doesnt work. I solved the stoppage at kitchen sink but the washer still backs up shower. NOW when I tried to hookup the washer discharge to the t that I capped off, its in the homepage pics, guess what, we could not here the bubbling sound prior to overflow of the shower drain as we hard all the other times. as a matter of fact Ragnar, when we discharged into the T, water didnot even come up through shower drain at all, it just started to come up out of the T.

going back to the way I installed the standpipe, It was a 1 1/2 pipe, [so would it help if it was a 2 incher?], and also, would it help if on top of standpipe for washer hose, I attached a vent straight up through roof?

pictures are available if needed, id just have to update my homepage.

and also Ragnar, WHy would it be any different with the T, why didnt water come out of shower that time? This is seriously stressing me out, and I think it does have something to do with venting, maybe water somehow wants to come out of the lowest point , shower drain, because of lack of airflow in relation to all of that water discharge,.

help m,e akhhhhhjhhhh
 
  #26  
Old 05-10-03, 04:19 PM
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RAGNAR,
 
  #27  
Old 05-10-03, 04:25 PM
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plaus forgot to say, you know the pics that show the 3 Ts connected? Because of the concrete I bearly see what is going on after that, but you CAN bearly see what those connect to before concrte floor, and it migh tbe a 2 inch pipe of some kind. All i want to say is that it is leaking water from that area , badly.
If I cut off this setup, i might be able to get a better look at things, but should i ignore this and forever hid this leak inside drywall? no way right? also, will I have to support vent pipe going upwards before I chop this crap off?? I know that the shower drain branches off and is connected from underneath this gathering of Ts. maybe theres a roc there or something, but it leaks bad
any suggestions
 
  #28  
Old 05-10-03, 06:44 PM
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Inspector J... Yes you need a standpipe on the washing machine, but it should not back up regardless unless the line is stopped up... Go from the tee with a snake, and then go through the other tee with a snake, and then go through the main that that had the broken plug in it with a snake... You should be going in atleast 25' from the 2 smaller tees and as much as 100' from the bigger plug... You have stopped up drains, not stopped up vents, and my only other suggestion to you is to call a plumber... I am beginning to think you are in over your head... I hate to say that, but we are going back and forth with a list of crazy symptoms that all lead to stopped up drains and daily you come up with some new reason to believe your drains are not stopped up... They ARE... That is why it backs up in the tee, that is why it backs up in the shower... I really don't know what else to tell you... A 2" discharge line might make some difference if you even had a standpipe but you are pumping into a tee, so it doesn't matter... And the discharge on the washer is only 1" so it wouldn't matter anyway...
 
  #29  
Old 05-10-03, 07:19 PM
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ragnar, I dont understand, Im telling you that when I hooked up the washers drain hose to the T that I had put a cleanout fitting on, water acted differently and did not want to come out of the showers drain, like it does when hooked up to the standpipe I connected some feet away. Dont you see something odd about that? And what about the leaks, just let it be? It is leaking and want to redo the way those Ts were installed, but how should I redo it? Man, in over my head, I dont thinkso, Imsorry. theres just no way I can pay a plumber right now. Any other ideas here, and by the way, the 75 ft snake didnt even go all the way in. AT ABOUT 60 ft, I could see the snake moving from the front house cleanout that is there. Where can I put my washer water discharge? As of now, I have turned off the toilet in other room, and rigged up the washer drain hose to the toilet. Maybe this is the only way to do it. None of the fixtures are clogged now. When we tried to use washer after I snaked the line, I did it atleast 2 hours slowly with spade piece, I noticed a gurgle sound before the shower drain started filling up with water. When we tried to discharge through that T, no water came up through shower drain and no weird sounds were heard I might add.
 
  #30  
Old 05-11-03, 08:33 AM
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Ragnar its gotta be roots dude

Man Im sorry if I responded with attitude. Ragnar, I just wish you could come over. but your probably far away. Ragnar, I dontknow, I down and out. Very down.
 
  #31  
Old 05-11-03, 03:36 PM
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InspectorJ, where do you live? Also, I don't mean to have attitude either... but the bottom line is that a 2" pipe vented or not will carry the water off from a washing machine... So the 2" line could be partially clogged... And the main line is DEFINITELY partially clogged because the water was coming up in the shower at the beginning... Now, you have gotten most of the fixtures to drain so that they don't come up in the shower, so you are making progress, but the tee from the washing machine is still not completely open or it would drain... You have to get the snake in that tee, and you have to clean out the other tee from the sink line... And if it is still not draining, you have to go tot he main and run in 100' or until you get past the clog, which it doesn't sound like you have... and finally, where is the leak? I will look at the pics and get right back to you...
 
  #32  
Old 05-11-03, 10:09 PM
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Ragnar, indeed the stress of this mission affects my attitude, but must succeed!

Hey bud, im in vegas. Today I rented 5 books on plumbing and boy did I really get ideas. On top of that, I removed the mickey mouse of a job and will definitely post them pics on the homepage, unless this computer freezes and dies on me, I promise.

This is whats really going on in the battlefield:

1. I know now for shure the drain pipe, the original one that the house came with, that is hidden under this ground youll see in the pics, its a 2"er or bigger. As the drain bends, I cant see or get my mirror in there to peep things out.

So looking into the hole, I first thought I saw a rock and got excited, but it is end of the showers 1 1/2" drain line that connects to this, [Im not shure WHAT it is, but basically I guess its a 2" dwv bend with a 1 1/2 hole to allow for the showers connection to it. Now what I thought was a rock, is kinda like a deflector piece, I guess its there to try and direct the showers draining water in the right direction, downwards, so things will be smoother!

Ragnar,I then did some experiments. Me and my galfriend tried different ways of trying to drain the washer, and if things got hectic, my girl would shut off the machine. So I went ahead and tried to stick the washer tube into the hole that I uncovered, thinking for shure it would drain, but still after a little while, maybe 4 or 5 seconds, water would start to bubble up and overfill that hole. Then I ran the hose all the way far off to that shower drain real quick to see the difference, and I think it was a little bit better at draining. It would also overflow the shower 1 1/2 drain line.

I want to know now what I should do to improve things, since I tore the club up, and for the future! I read in the books about reventing, and saw basically "loops". Can someone please explain simply so I can understand reventing? does it help keep water moving down somehow by pushing on it with its looping connections?

Is there a way to setup pipes for washer discharge so it would slow the water draining a little bit, this washer puts out, and unless surfaces all the way through the inside of drain pipe were smooth, I think this problem will stay.

Ragnar, what would reducers and the opposite fitting do with water flow performance? I could go on and on, but hopefully Ragnar knows what I should do to fix things up here by now. If your not clear on something, tell me and Ill do everything in my power to help you get an accurate visualization of everything that relates to this area.

I dont think my toilet is vented at all, should I go ahead and fix that? and if I fix that, should I go ahead and just design the washers drain to this idea? Cmon Ragnar, I am thinking this would be easier than tying the washers draining into the setup I have now. I got an idea, Ill redo the sketch on my homepage, and you can rough it in, I dont know.

I am really thinking the shower drain that was put into the system was a blunder, and that is why it fills up when washer discharges, couldnt it have used a vent or revent, But what exactly would that allow it to do,[ I just want to make shure Im thinking correct, sorry Ragnar! :}]

Ok now to the homepage...



F.U.B.A.R.
f-cked up beyond all recognition.
David










Ragnar, you think the "deflector shield that was put there in the 2" inch bend piece, do you think that is screwing up water flow? Should I remove it?
 
  #33  
Old 05-11-03, 10:57 PM
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Ragnar, dont know about the sketch tonight, do you need it? Talk to me, how should I improve things? Washer puts out alot, toilets drain is available, and right there. Should I reduce or increase anything? I want to slow washers discharge as much as possible, so it wont back upthe shower. The showers drainline connects to existing drain pipe in those new updated pics right before a bend, then after the bend is the original metal stuff underground. aLL RUSTY AND BUMPY, AND DONT FORGET, THE WASHER STILL BACKED UP AFTER 4 OR 5 SECOND DRAINING BEGUN. Do I have to get another snake?? ahhhh
inspector fubar is signing off.
 
  #34  
Old 05-12-03, 07:15 PM
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Get another snake... Reventing is not necessary unless there is no vent to begin with... Your toilet IS vented... Slowing the washing machine discharge down is not the answer, it won't help... It can only hurt the washing machine... The shower is not the problem, it only needs a trap... NOTHING YOU HAVE SAID SINCE DAY ONE GIVES ME ANY REASON TO THINK YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM EXCEPT A STOPPED UP DRAIN....

Reventing the shower would not do anything for the washing machine drainage... It also would do nothing for the shower, as it appears it is already vented... I am not sure if you know how a vent works, so I will give you the run down... Take your thumb and put it over a straw while it is down in your coke, and then lift it up... The coke stays in the straw... Let your thumb off and you have given the straw a VENT where air can come in... Now the coke flows out freely... Now lets take the same straw... Put your thumb over the top and lift it up again and it stays full of coke, but this time, cram a big pile of roots or sink goop in the other end... Now it doesn't matter if you let your thumb off, it doesn't matter if you make the straw bigger at the top, or add three more openings to vent from... You can revent, double vent, loop vent, spiral vent, or any other creative thing you can think of and the coke still ain't going anywhere until you clear up the end of the straw of the gunk that is stopping it up... You need a trap on the shower, but other than that, you need a professional snake job... You don't need to rerough plumbing, you don't need to break up anymore concrete, you don't need to increase any line sizes... I don't know if you have read it in my prior post, but a 2" line will carry 10 washine machine discharge lines... 10, 10, 10... That's 10 washers... So you don't have to have the sides smooth again like new... You simply need to run a snake down the drain, and if you can't get that done, then get someone to do it for you...

And you never told me, where is the leak? I never saw the pictures of the leak... That should be addressed obviously, but I don't know how to address if I don't know what is leaking... Send more pics also of how the shower and toilet tie in if you get more concrete broken up... Otherwise, I will be in the Vegas area sometime in August and will give you all the answers I have in person if you find it helpful... Sorry bro... I don't know any other advice to give unless I physically see the job and the symptoms...
 
  #35  
Old 05-14-03, 11:26 PM
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updated homepage, check it out

Ragnar, check out the new pics. Toilet isnt vented partner, how would I fix that?

Youll see also the shower drain, but under that is toilet drain. Maybe I can connect a sanitary Y to that and have it serve as a vent somehow for toilet? Its about 5 ft away from toilet. But if that can be done, tell me how I would set things up to drain washer into that Y also. I repeat toilet is not vented, how did you get that idea Ragnar? Cant wait to meet you.

D

just look above at older messages in this thread to click on my homepage link
later
 
  #36  
Old 05-22-03, 05:08 AM
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I decided on this solution

Guys, I just ended up putting a smaller discheage line to my washer. I called 2 washer repair guys and 1 said dont do it, but the other one said its fine, just dont go smaller than a 1/2 inch inner diameter tube for the washing machine discharge hose. There you have it. A replacement pump for the washer would be around 20 bucks compared to all that damn stress I was going through!!!!!!!Until next time, thanks everyone.
 
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