help: water supply pipes don't line up with tub faucet assembly!

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  #1  
Old 04-27-03, 12:53 PM
timborino
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Exclamation help: water supply pipes don't line up with tub faucet assembly!

I replaced my tub faucet assembly last night, and since the existing water supply pipes didn't line up correctly, I used flexible faucet supply lines instead of rigid pipe (the previous assembly was connected with a frankenstein mess of elbows and tiny pipes).

http://doityourself.com/images/pl-12.gif

I also installed faucet cutoff valves so I don't have to turn off the whole house's water while I work on this.

I've got really crummy water pressure in the tub/shower now, and I'm wondering if the small diameter hoses/valves are contributing to it. Is this possible? What other options do I have to connect the poorly spaced supply pipes to the faucet assembly?


I'm also worried that the problem might be worsened by sediment clogging the faucet (I forgot to flush the lines). If that's the case, how do I clean it out of the faucet assembly? It's a ceramic disk valve (link below).

http://www.americanstandard-us.com/P...sp?prodID=1399

I'm a total novice when it comes to plumbing, so any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
 
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Old 04-28-03, 05:51 AM
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1 problem at a time.

The supply lines you used are wrong for a tub/shower valve. This is the low flow problem. You need a solid 1/2" supply line to this fixture.

If you are reconnecting old galvanized pipe with some new pipe, remove as much of the old pipe as you possibly can to a point where you have good access to work on it again in the future. You need to do whatever it takes to make pipe meet the valve. The fewer elbows the better. You can also bend the 1/2" copper slightly to make a bend less than 22 degrees.

Sediment clogging the valve may happen. Just pull the stem and turn the water on for a few seconds. It is messy, usually better done with 2 people as you can hold a bucket and stop the water from sraying everything as it is turned on then off.

The valves you use can also contribute to poor pressure. Use a full port quarter turn ball valve as your first choice. Second choice would be a small gate valve. Do not use anything like a stop on a toilet ot lav faucet, wrong valve type and size for this application.

Hope this helps you get a start. More questions, ask in this thread and someone will answer you...

Good Luck...
 
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Old 04-28-03, 03:00 PM
timborino
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Awesome! Thanks so much for the advice!


However, I need a little more help now...

I found a 1/2" threaded full port ball valve, and I found 1/2" copper supply lines, but how the heck do I connect it all together?

Here's a picture of my current hookup.

I'm also worried that the copper might not bend enough for the hot water (right side; see pic above).
 
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Old 04-28-03, 03:39 PM
T
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You can always use 1/2" flexible copper, but you'll still have to solder that. If you can, use CPVC, all you need to do is glue it. Use 1/2 threaded ball valves.
 
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Old 04-28-03, 04:15 PM
timborino
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Originally posted by trinitro
You can always use 1/2" flexible copper, but you'll still have to solder that. If you can, use CPVC, all you need to do is glue it. Use 1/2 threaded ball valves.
I like the CPVC idea! I didn't even know that existed!

It looks like it'll be a lot more flexible than copper, too. How should I connect it to the 1/2" threads on the valve and faucet assembly? You mentioned glue?


Would it be as simple as gluing these onto the ends of the tubes and fastening directly to the brass fittings?

http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/...6/A16150_3.JPG

http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/...6/A16154_3.JPG
 
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Old 04-28-03, 04:40 PM
poleaxed
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cpvc is so easy to work with.you can get a one step glue(no cleaning)and male or female adapters for the threaded connection.
 
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Old 04-28-03, 04:49 PM
timborino
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Originally posted by poleaxed
cpvc is so easy to work with.you can get a one step glue(no cleaning)and male or female adapters for the threaded connection.
Do I need special adapters to transition from plastic to metal?
 
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Old 04-28-03, 05:11 PM
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Any large box store or good hardware store will have everything you need for the repairs.

Interesting picture....It's a shame we don't have a hall of fame here....

Thread the ball valves on the old pipe and take off from there with plastic. You'll be done in no time.
Let the glue have time to weld the pipes together before you pressurize the lines and your all set.

In looking at the pic again, try a couple of 45 degree els instead of 90's to connect the right side. Dry fit before glueing joints. Left side looks like a straight shot with plastic pipe.

Have fun and let us know how it turns out....more questions someone will answer you with help.
 
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Old 04-28-03, 05:15 PM
poleaxed
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if your connecting to galvanized you can use a male of female adapter on which are threaded.if you are working with copper you can use a sweat by glue compression union or if you dont want to sweat anything use a 1/2 inch compression coupling to convert from copper to cpvc.1/2 cpvs is rigid enough to use standard compresion ferrels that come with the coupling.
 
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Old 04-28-03, 05:27 PM
timborino
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Originally posted by notuboo
Interesting picture....It's a shame we don't have a hall of fame here....
"Hall of Shame", you mean?

Left side looks like a straight shot with plastic pipe.
Unfortunately, it's not. My first attempt was with a 12" length of galvanized pipe, and it was off just enough to warrant something more flexible.

Am I correct to assume the CPVC will be a little more flexible?
 
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Old 04-28-03, 07:14 PM
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CPVC is far more flexible, but it is not to designed to be put in a bind permanently.. It is very easy to cut and glue elbows on though and if you need a little flex to get it to match up it is okay to flex it just a little... I personally think your existing hookup is sufficient and I wouldn't touch a thing except to take the stems out and check for rust and debris... While the supplies you put on are slightly smaller than needed, they are sufficient for the valve since it is designed to use as little water as possible... I personally think that you have a real problem with galvanized piping that needs replacing... Take the supplies loose from the valve first and see how your volume looks through the supplies... If it looks good, then the stems need cleaning... If it looks real bad, then all the CPVC in the world isn't going to help get more volume...

One more thought... If you want to go back with flex and determine that the standard supplies are not sufficient, get yourself four 3/4" x 1/2" galvanized bell reducers... Then put on the two threaded ball valves... Out of each ball valve put a short 1/2" galvanized nipple, bell reducer, and a short 3/4" nipple... On each side of the valve, put a bell reducer, and a short 3/4" nipple... Now you have 3/4" threads on each side... Take 2 flexible water heater connectors and hook them directly to the threads on each side... Now you have 2 short sections of 3/4" flex pipe instead of what you have now... They make stainless steel braided connectors very similar to what you have now and they can be found at HD and Lowes usually...
 
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Old 05-01-03, 10:05 AM
timborino
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Update:

I pulled the stems and flushed out a lot of rust and sediment and I removed the flow restrictor from the shower head. There's a definite improvement in the pressure now, but it's still not up to what it was before (not even from the spout).

When I had the stems out, I turned the water on all the way and it blasted out all the way to the back wall of the tub, so I think the cutoff valves and supply hoses I installed might be sufficient. I suspect the problem might actually be within the faucet assembly.

When I first unboxed it, I remember noticing a small plastic plug in the center of the assembly (in between where the shower riser and spout pipes attach). The instructions didn't mention I should remove it, and I was able to blow air through it, so I left it in there assuming it was a necessary part. If sediment is hung up on that plug (or if the plug just restricts flow on its own), it might explain why the pressure seems fine directly from the [stem-less] assembly, but is crappy from the spout and shower when it's fully assembled (when the water's forced through/past that plastic plug).

Unfortunately, I have to disassemble the whole thing again to clean that part out (or remove it).
 
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Old 05-01-03, 12:07 PM
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I believe all new faucets (or at least most) are the pressure restricting kind. I know that my new tub faucets with brand new 1/2 copper have a lower volume then the old faucets with 20 year old half restricted galvanized pipes.
 
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Old 05-01-03, 03:15 PM
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This is what I would do, remove the shut off valves and supply line, get and install four 1/2" cpvc x 1/2" female brass adaptors



Then glue the pipe and elbows where needed.
 
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