Hot Tub Heating Element

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Old 06-12-03, 09:41 AM
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Hot Tub Heating Element

My Hot Tub is not heating, and not sure where the heating element is located

Sundance Supra Lounge
1986
SN# SG42SN610-SG1282-0886

How do I change it once I find it?

See Pictures Below



 
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Old 06-12-03, 01:31 PM
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Re: Hot Tub Heating Element

Originally posted by Plumber2000
My Hot Tub is not heating, and not sure where the heating element is located


In this picture it's the horizontal tube that's connected to
the white pipe. On one end of it is the power supply, the
pump output comes into it from the bottom, and the output to
the spa is through the white pipe. The round thing is probably a
pressure switch or thermostat. The element is inside the tube
and looks like a standard water heater element. The bottom
picture shows the power supply with a red reset button and the
conduit for the 120 line.

Christopher
 
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Old 06-12-03, 01:37 PM
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So do I take the screws off the side of the black box to get to, remove, and install a new one?

Do you know what the cost is for a new element?

I know what an electric water heater element cost. And how to replace them,

Are the changed out in the same manor?
 
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Old 06-12-03, 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Plumber2000
So do I take the screws off the side of the black box to get to, remove, and install a new one?

Do you know what the cost is for a new element?

I know what an electric water heater element cost. And how to replace them,

Are the changed out in the same manor?
Here's a link to a site that has a variety of heaters...
http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/getgo....o+assembly.htm

Replacing it should be simply a matter of unscrewing the output
connection to the spa and the input connection from the pump after you've disconnected the pressure switch.

Next you'd want to remove the four screws on the front of
the black power box and remove the cover. At that point you
should see the terminals for the element. How the element
is mounted to the box, I can't tell from here but it's either
screwed into a boss on the back of the box (like a WH element),
or there's a large nut inside the box that has to go. I wish I
could see the back of that black power box. I see something
on the right side of the box that looks like a reccessed screw,
but it's covered by the black wiring, might suggest there's a
plate in back of the power box that unscrews.

Prices seem to range from $65 for the elements to $300 for
the assemblies.


Christopher
 
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Old 06-12-03, 05:43 PM
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Thanks for the info, was doing some work at a house and this guy owns his own spa and pool place, he is comming by tommarrow to check it out for me, Will be trading time for time, still have much work to do it his house tomarrow.
 
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Old 06-12-03, 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by Plumber2000
Thanks for the info, was doing some work at a house and this guy owns his own spa and pool place, he is comming by tommarrow to check it out for me, Will be trading time for time, still have much work to do it his house tomarrow.
Cool! Let me know what he finds!

Christopher
 
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Old 06-12-03, 06:14 PM
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If the element is burnt out, will this cause the heat indicater light on the controls to not light up?

Also in the picture below, those two wire terminal, those are the two wires heading to the element, if I was to take the wires off the terminal, would I be able to test the element with an ohm meter though the wires them self?

 

Last edited by Plumber2000; 06-12-03 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 06-12-03, 07:29 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Plumber2000
If the element is burnt out, will this cause the heat indicater light on the controls to not light up?

Also in the picture below, those two wire terminal, those are the two wires heading to the element, if I was to take the wires off the terminal, would I be able to test the element with an ohm meter though the wires them self?

[/QUOTE

It's possible, it would depend on how the light was wired. If
you remove the wires from the terminals and you know they
go straight to the element then you could do continuity check
on the element that way. I used to work as a satellite tech for a place in CNY that did TV's, satellites, pools and spas, so I had to learn a variety of approaches. Multifunctional Multitasking!

Christopher
 
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Old 06-12-03, 07:38 PM
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Yea Not sure but I know the cable that goes to the control panel, plugs into circuit board opposite side of all the terminals, all the other indicator lights do light up, we had the control panel replace less then a year ago, even when the old control panel was in-op, the hottub would still heat up.

Here the deal, my wife upon refilling the tub, she had turned the heat on after the water reached above the jets them self, after that it would not heat at all.

So having you heard that part of the story, is it a good possibility it will be the element?
 
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Old 06-12-03, 08:09 PM
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Well Update,

I took the wires off the terminals, and used the ohm meter, it was reading 10 on the scale, so removed the box cover, looked inside, but I don't see how you remove this element, it's almost like as if the chrome metal tube that the element is loctaed in is all part of one unit. I seen no way to just remove the element out of the housing tube, is it possible that that entire unit will need replaced.

I guess I'll let the spa guy take a look tomarrow.
 
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Old 06-12-03, 08:58 PM
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What scale are you using to measure the element? 10 ohms is not that bad, the element may still be good. What kind of power do you have to the assembly. Do you have power at all? If those are indeed the element terminals you should have 110V when the control board requests hot water. No voltage means you need to look at how the power gets to that point. There is probably a relay in there also.
 
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Old 06-12-03, 08:59 PM
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Also, if there is any safety system (like a temperature sensor) a broken sensor will block the element from ever comming on.
 
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Old 06-13-03, 06:23 AM
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Was reading it on the 200 range. Do I have power to it, not sure, wife drained it down lastnight can't do any voltage test till it's full,

The question is, when the compartment doors or opens, which has sensors on the latches, will this seems to stop some functions, is this going to interupt power flow to the points I'm wanting to test?

I test water heater elements on the 200 setting, should I test the hut tub at the lower setting of 20?

I have the spa guy showing up here today, was seeing if i could have figured it out before he showed up, if it turns out to be the circuit board, I will have to wait to get that fixed, I have no idea what that board will cost.

There are a couple of sensors on the heater unit, maybe the problem lies there, I'll know today.
 
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Old 06-13-03, 06:33 AM
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If your tub is supplied by 220V then the elements will probably be 220V, so you should use a 600V scale (unless you have a 300V scale). It is possible for the safety latches to disconnect the heating element. You should be able to bypass them for the purpose of testing. Ideally you'd like to have an electrical diagram to trace the circuit, but that can be sometimes difficult to obtain. If the element is broken then you should be reading full voltage (220V probably) at the element terminals when the spa calls for heat. If you're not reading 220V then the element is probably ok, the problem lies prior to that point. That hot water safety is either open or closed when the water is cold (it's basically a switch). You can try diisconnecting the switch and use a jumper to connect the two wires. Try the unit with both the leads disconnected (open circuit) and connected (closed circuit). If the heating element kicks in in either of those cases then you have a bad sensor. There may also be other sensors in the spa (perhaps a motor sensing sensor that will only turn on the heating element if the motor is running.
 
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Old 06-13-03, 06:41 AM
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The spa to 240V

I have to wait for any test till it's all full, wiring diagram is not possible, only thing I can provide is pictures, good thing I'm doing a job for the spa and pool guy, when all said and done, either we will break even on the cost, or 1) His cost to fix this thing will be less then my cost to fix his plumbing and he will not own me too much, or it will be the other way around.

I hope this is something simple, I know when we had the control replaced, that baby cost us nearly $350, which took them but 10 min to install. Dam hottubs can be spendy.
 
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Old 06-13-03, 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by Plumber2000
Well Update,

I took the wires off the terminals, and used the ohm meter, it was reading 10 on the scale, so removed the box cover, looked inside, but I don't see how you remove this element, it's almost like as if the chrome metal tube that the element is loctaed in is all part of one unit. I seen no way to just remove the element out of the housing tube, is it possible that that entire unit will need replaced.

I guess I'll let the spa guy take a look tomarrow.
Well, the more I dig into the Sundance models specifically,
the more references I'm seeing to early models that don't
have replaceable elements. In those cases the whole heater
assembly has to go, your spa guy would either know the cut-off
year or be able to work around it.

Actually 10 Ohms for a 240v element sounds about right. The
pressure switch on the tube (next to the input connection) is
designed to open the power circuit if there's no water in the
heater tube. You could try to jump this to test it, although
most fail in the ON state, this one could have failed OFF. But
don't test it without water in the spa or that heater will go
from 0' to 1500' in a second or two and "dry-fire".

There is also be a high limit temperature switch in the circuit to shut the heater off when it gets too hot. I think in your case, it's
the object right next to the fitting where the pressure switch
screws into the bottom of the heater tube.

www.sundancespas.com does have some owners manuals still available for the mid-eighties models but I haven't found any wiring diagrams yet.

Christopher
 

Last edited by ChristopherT; 06-13-03 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 06-13-03, 07:25 AM
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Tub is full, turned power back on, and tried a volt test on those terminal, after turning heat dial to max, had no reading, so I'm clueless, will know soon what is the problem is I guess.
 
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Old 06-13-03, 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by Plumber2000
Tub is full, turned power back on, and tried a volt test on those terminal, after turning heat dial to max, had no reading, so I'm clueless, will know soon what is the problem is I guess.
Bad pressure switch, bad high temperature limit switch, bad fuses? Whatever else they threw between the power and the element. I did locate a partial wiring diagram for an inground
Sundance spa that showed they used a pressure switch,
temperature sensor, and a interlock as well as a high limit
switch on that particular model. So we still have room to
think it's something minor.

Christopher
 

Last edited by ChristopherT; 06-13-03 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 06-13-03, 10:26 AM
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Main Circuit Board is out, It has to be Friday the 13th

Well won't be fixing it for a long time now, I can look on the bright side, I will save $20 to $25 a month from the power bill.
 
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Old 06-13-03, 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Plumber2000
Main Circuit Board is out, It has to be Friday the 13th

Well won't be fixing it for a long time now, I can look on the bright side, I will save $20 to $25 a month from the power bill.
That's tough, Plumber. Are replacements available still?

Christopher
 
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Old 06-13-03, 04:35 PM
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The owner of the spa place said he can get a rebuilt board for around $250, so when all said and done, with the work I done for him at his house, we may break even, but I might only have to pay around $100, not bad for getting the tub fixed.
 
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Old 07-03-03, 06:12 PM
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Well good news, got a new board today and installed it, it is back up and heating again
 
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