Burping Toilet?


  #1  
Old 11-22-05, 05:53 PM
B_Stephenson
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Question Burping Toilet?

Have a toilet that burps a big air bubble every time the washing machine drains.

Drain and vent piping is configured as follows:

Lavatory drains to a 2" vent pipe in the wall and washing machine drains to the same 2" pipe about a 1' below the lav in the wall, then the 2" pipe goes below the floor and ties to the 3" horizontal drain pipe for the toilet about 8' down stream. Diagram:
http://home.centurytel.net/hawks-nes...pingtoilet.JPG

The lavatory is not effected, just the toilet. It seems that when the washing machine drains it creates alot of back-pressure on the toilet, but the drain piping is all clear as well as the vent pipe!

Anyone have a clue how to fix this or what would cause it?
 

Last edited by B_Stephenson; 11-23-05 at 07:32 AM.
  #2  
Old 11-23-05, 07:50 AM
L
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well the only thing i can think of is you need to move the lv line higher so it wont get the vacum from the washer when it drains
 
  #3  
Old 11-23-05, 08:01 AM
B_Stephenson
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Thanks Lenny, but the lav is un-effected.
 
  #4  
Old 11-23-05, 08:30 AM
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My best guess is that the washer drain does not have it's own vent. It should have. Washers put out a lot of water volume when draining and it is probably pulling a vacuum on the toilet trap. This is why it burps. All fixtures need air to drain properly. If they don't have their own supply (a vent) they will pull air from the nearest/easiest source. Good luck.
 
  #5  
Old 11-23-05, 03:01 PM
B_Stephenson
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OK, I cut in an Air Admittance Valve between the toilet and where the washer drain connects to the 3" drain for the toilet to prevent the draining of the washer from creating a vacum on the toilet trap and it's still burping

Updated sketch:
http://home.centurytel.net/hawks-nes...pingtoilet.JPG
 
  #6  
Old 11-25-05, 01:43 PM
B_Stephenson
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Nevermind folks, fixed it today! Whew, now I can sleep sound
 
  #7  
Old 11-25-05, 05:22 PM
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We try not to have secrets here at DIY. Please tell us what the problem was and HOW you solved it. It may help other members who have the same problem.
 
  #8  
Old 11-26-05, 06:35 AM
B_Stephenson
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Well, I didn't post the remedy because it really isn't a good fix and would never pass code, but here is what I did. (kids, don't do this at home!)

I removed the AAV because it wasn't a vaccum problem, it was pressure being created by the suds of the Gain Detergent the homeowner was using. Ran a 2" loop between the floorjoists from the AAV cut in to downstream building drain as a relief and it worked.

I know this isn't a correct way of doing things and it isn't above the flood level rim of the fixture, so I wouldn't suggest this as a "fix", but the homeowners didn't want me to tear up thier new home.

The only way to have corrected the problem appropriately would have been to tear out the sheetrock and run the relief vent in the wall, either branching it in the wall or in the attic.

I have never run into this problem before but I think it would be best to run the washer drain and vent as an isolated fixture to avoid this in the future.

Needless to say, this has been a humbling experiance for me, we are never too old to learn.
 
  #9  
Old 11-26-05, 07:13 AM
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Thanks for the answer and the disclaimer. At least we all know how you "fixed" it and the proper way to do it also.
 
  #10  
Old 11-28-05, 01:02 PM
sjazz23
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Wow. Looking at that diagram, I'd be concerned that the 2" vent is being overburdened. I always, always use a 3" vent with a water closet. I wouldn't be surprised if every time that toilet flushes, it removes water from the traps using that same 2" vent, causing gassy smells over time if the traps go dry.
 
  #11  
Old 11-28-05, 08:41 PM
B_Stephenson
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Your right, going by the diagram, the total fixture units would be 6 and the max units for a 2" vent is 4.
 

Last edited by B_Stephenson; 11-28-05 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 11-28-05, 09:58 PM
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I beg to differ. A 2" vent is fine for a toilet, or for that matter, an entire bathroom. Max loading on a 2" vent is 24 FU, max length is 120' (2001 California Plumbing Code. I believe that UPC is the same and IPC is the same or more lax).
 
  #13  
Old 11-29-05, 02:01 PM
B_Stephenson
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Your right, as long as your not using the diagram
 
  #14  
Old 11-29-05, 06:37 PM
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Thats why we here at DIY ALWAYS tell members to check LOCAL code. It differs from place to place.
 
  #15  
Old 05-03-07, 05:25 AM
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proper venting

Sounds to me that the commode (water closet) needs its own seperate vent because then the vacumn created when the water passes sucks at the trap so if there was a vent there it couldnt draw at the commode it would pull air from the vent. I have been a plumber for 27 years and installed undergrounds for 23 years and have corrected problems like this many times on other peoples work.
 
  #16  
Old 05-03-07, 10:19 PM
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Yep, in Florida you could vent the bathroom off an 1.5" vent. Codes definitely change from place to place.
 
 

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