Sewer Pipe Cleanouts


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Old 11-27-05, 12:50 PM
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Sewer Pipe Cleanouts

We're getting city sewer in a few months and I need to lay down the pipe that will be buried under our addition. By code, I need a cleanout at every 90 degree bend (only one per 40' required) and at no more than 100'. My line has two 90s near the house, and almost exactly 100' run from my old septic tank (where we're tying in), to the sewer pipe that will be run down the middle of the road. So, code-wise, I only need one cleanout at the first 90, but a second wouldn't hurt.

I see the reasoning for these cleanouts, but in practice, it's just a real pain in the ass- am I supposed to just have a 4" PVC pipe sticking out of the ground by these turns? One will be in our garden and it's obviously essential, but the with the run of 100', it will *just* eke by code. Since it's running under the house and driveway, there is nowhere I can stick a cleanout that won't be completely obtrusive and a real PITA to implement. Am I going to have problems down the road with clogging, or do you think I'll be OK with just the one cleanout? Everything will be sloped at 1/2" per foot through most of the run- the plans show the new sewer line to be 8' deep in front of my house, so I should be OK. Might need a sump pump to dig the trench though, heh.
 
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Old 11-27-05, 03:44 PM
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I'm going to answer this from a plumber's point of view along with a drain cleaners point of view. On the first side of things, there shouldn't be any 90's used underground for drainage unless Virginia doesn't follow correct plumbing procedures. In Ky the only thing you can do is use a 45 and street 45 tied together to make a 90 degree turn, that's it.

Cleanouts are a necessity in long sewer laterals. They provide the drain cleaner the ability to effectively attack the clog with the machine as close to the obstruction as possible. I charge extra for having to add lengths to the machine when there is no other access to the line. Most drain cleaners will. Puts the perspective of having cleanouts in a cost efficient manner. After the backfill drops in a short few months around the cleanout, you can cut that pipe off beneath the finished grade, install a solvent weld cap and do not glue it, use grease and push fit it on. Paint the top a flourescent color, take a picture of it before covering it up so you can use the surrounding items in your yard as a gauge to know where it is down the line.

Use a wye and street 45 for the upright of the cleanout; this allows the drain cleaner the ability to send the cable down the cleanout without having to worry about which way the cable is going. Numerous cleanouts give the opportunity to determine which part of the line is holding the clog.

I've done more main line clogs in new home constructed with PVC than the old clay lines. Reason: Incorrectly installed sewer lines without the contractor using sand or grillage to prevent the sewer line dropping a belly or lose its fall.

Backfilling a ditch with the dirt that came out of it on top of PVC is risky at best. Not unless the ditch was dug with a super flat bottom where the pipe has no voids underneath of it. Unlikely in most cases.
 
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Old 11-27-05, 04:23 PM
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Ah, good stuff, thanks! So instead of 90s, I should use two 45s? I didn't see anything in IRC prohibiting it, but I haven't run my plumbing iso through the city yet, either. Can they be right in series, or should I have a few feet of run? I don't have a lot of room to work with between my house and septic tank (maybe 4') so I might be stuck with a 90 there, but the buried cleanouts are good advice, I can easily put one those in under the driveway, right after the pipe comes out from under the addition. I'll watch the backfill, too!
 
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Old 11-27-05, 05:58 PM
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You can make the turn of direction as long or as short as you like. In Ky you can glue a street and regular 45 together to make a 90 underground and pass inspection.

From a plumber's point of view I like the slow gradual turns outside underground where it is difficult to get to at any time. Lots of work/digging if something goes wrong.
 
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Old 11-27-05, 06:08 PM
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IRC doesn't have that specific requirement but what it does have is broad rules for inspectors to tell you what to put in.

You should look at P2608.2. This is where you will be told what is acceptable or approved regardless....

Talk to your building department about the buried 45's. You will find them very receptive to this.

As to cleanouts, you have a very good understanding of them.

As for the digging of the trench, use shoring for everything over 4 foot deep. Too many people get hurt or killed every year for a simple job and they tried to save a few minutes of time. Work safe and think safe...not for you but for your family...

Good luck with your project, more questions, ask and someone will answer you.
 
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Old 11-27-05, 07:58 PM
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Thanks for the warning about shoring the ditch! I hadn't even considered I'd have to be working down there at the deep end, but now that I think about it, there's no way around it. I re-read P2608 too, and noted a few things I'd nearly forgotten about, like sleeving through foundations. And I somehow completely missed the requirement to shield piping in the walls; at least the latter would be easy to retrofit, but I'm not sure what the inspector would do if I forgot the former... Will the check valve be on the city's end of the tap, or will I have to put in a check valve?

While I have your attention, I had a (maybe) quick question about shower drains- do shower drains normally come as a unit, or do I put a trap on them like I would a sink? Isn't that trap sort of hard to clean? Is 2" required vice 1.5"?

Here's my drain iso thus far, if you have any comments:
http://img319.imageshack.us/my.php?image=addition2carfdn8sewer0ch.png

...3D in AutoCAD is a real PITA, especially when dealing with odd angles like the 2.3 degree slope, but I'm certainly getting better at modelling the plumbing! Took me far less to model in those wyes and 45s than I'd feared.

Thanks!!
 

Last edited by grover; 11-27-05 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 11-28-05, 07:22 AM
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Just came back from city hall with building and plumbing permits in-hand! They didn't do more than a cursory glance at my plumbing plans, though. I hope they're good or the inspector could have some costly changes...
 
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Old 11-28-05, 05:15 PM
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Shower drain, chart P3201.7 will answer your question.

Forget about a check valve on the drain. They are called a back water valve. Very specific requirements on installs and where needed. If you are in a flood prone area, you may want to research these a little bit. You need to have good access for regular maintenance on them.

You have a plan, good luck in your project.

Ask if you have more questions or difficulties...

forgot to add: shower drain is kinda like a lav drain...to clean it out, first use a decent, large shop vac. You will be surprised with what this does on tub and shower drains. Only after this do you use a machine with a 1/4" or 5/16" cable.
 
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Old 11-30-05, 01:27 PM
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Ah thanks, I'd even highlighted those lines in the chart, lol. I guess that should be a 2" vent then too, vice a 1.5, as it's venting the 3" WC line too, huh? Nuts, which means I'll have to notch & strap the top plate now, I wouldn't have had to with a 1.5"...

Dumb question, but which glue should I use, the purple primer and medium duty black cement? Does the size pipe or whether it's buried or not make a difference? I think I've got purple and red sitting around left over from the garbage disposal and hose bibb, but they're pretty old by now. What's the heavy duty stuff used for, high pressure systems?
 
 

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