New bathroom sink install - water not draining properly

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  #1  
Old 03-21-07, 08:16 AM
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Angry New bathroom sink install - water not draining properly

Hi,
I'm a plumbing novice who just installed a new vanity/sink. After running into a few roadblocks (i.e. didn't know I should replace copper piping with flex lines running directly to water source), I'm at a last problem that is driving me crazy.

The bottom of the drain pipe is higher, and more offset than my previous sink in relation to where the trap sits. So, I created a PVC link with a couple joints that make it travel the extra 6 or so inches to the trap. There are no leaks, EXCEPT, when I run the water for more than 10 seconds, it backs up and comes spewing out of the connection between the drain pipe and my new link. Either a) there's some problem with the angle/pressure that isn't allowing it to drain, b) my problem is that I only have the drain pipe resting in the PVC, because I'm not sure if I need to actually seal that connection or c) my install caused some sort of blockage in the pipe in the wall that didn't cause problems before.

Help?
 
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Old 03-21-07, 09:33 AM
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"There are no leaks, EXCEPT, when I run the water for more than 10 seconds, it backs up and comes spewing out of the connection between the drain pipe and my new link."
Sounds like a couple more trips to the hardware store are in order. First thing to do is check your wallet make sure you have plenty of cash or a credit card with some room on it, after that is established make a pencil drawing of your plumbing indicating elevations and distances to the side for connection points. Now tear out all that leaky crap you put in and take your drawing and old pieces to the hardware store and buy all new pieces per the expert (yeah right) plumbing department guys suggestion. Now go back and attempt installation figure out what you missed and go back to the store and get it then attempt completion then make at least one more trip to the store now nearing exhaustion you figure out that maybe the expert plumbing department guy was not in fact a expert and you need a air trap for you drain so start the process all over and forget about doing all that silly stuff like going to a movie or out to dinner YOU HAVE A PLUMBING PROJECT TO COMPLETE GITERDUN I love Doing It Myself gosh it is so relaxing
 

Last edited by Mr Fixit; 03-21-07 at 09:34 AM. Reason: add
  #3  
Old 03-21-07, 10:12 AM
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Amusing, but any other ideas?

Very amusing post Mr. Fixit. No, I haven't enjoyed a movie in a few days because of this. And yes, I probably should have paid the plumber the $250 he asked for finishing my 90% complete job. But, alas, I enjoy seeing things through, and saving money.

So, are there any other ideas besides calling a plumber, and besides making several trips to a hardware store, which I've already done only to be met by one goofy kid who knows less than me, the novice.

Or even some elaboration on the "you need a air trap for you drain?"
 
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Old 03-21-07, 12:36 PM
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Does this link help?

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/bath/projects/remod_w1/vanity_s/faucet_moen84200.htm

I am not sure from your description what parts you have and where the problem is. There are some names for parts in the previous link, that may help people understand.

I don't got to the store that much when I am do plumbing; I just buy two of everything I need, and one of what I think I may need, and return what I don't use on a week day when they are less busy. Also the books the store have are far more usefull then the people. But there is this one guy at the store that is angry, but he really knows his stuff, so he's the best there.
 
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Old 03-21-07, 01:08 PM
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Helpful, yes. Getting closer.

Thanks,
That link was very helpful. Two parts I didn't realize were missing were the slip-joint adapter and the white plastic gasket in the drain body.

So, more specific questions.
1) If I don't have a pop up lever (it is a sink you just press down a stopper), then do I need a different drain pipe (without the insert for the lever)?
2) If I still have the draining problem, I doubt the white gasket will stop any water that might find its way up the drain pipe, and I'll end up with the same leaking. Am I wrong? Or would that mean I'm back to Mr Fixit's "air trap" issue?
 
  #6  
Old 03-21-07, 04:49 PM
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Does your main pvc drain line that is either 1 1/2 inch or 1 1/4 inch drain through the back wall (P-TRAP APPLICATION) or through the floor (S-TRAP APPLICATION)?

What exactly on the old drain was higher?

If you describe what you have, exactly, I'm sure we can steer you through this, for sure.
 
  #7  
Old 03-22-07, 06:05 AM
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Answers

1 1/2 inch P-trap through the back wall. The old sink bowl sat much LOWER than the new one, so the distance between the drain and the exit on the back wall is now LONGER. I don't know if that means that the water can't make it through the P-trap the way it should, so it gets kicked back up.
 
  #8  
Old 03-22-07, 10:32 AM
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Anyone?

If I can't fix it tonight, the wife makes me call the plumber tomorrow. Can anyone answer my questions so that I am prepared for the trip the hardware store and for doing the work?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 03-22-07, 12:02 PM
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Cool

I think you are on the right track, don't let the wife make you give up just yet!!! Going back to your orginal post:

"There are no leaks, EXCEPT, when I run the water for more than 10 seconds, it backs up and comes spewing out of the connection between the drain pipe and my new link. Either a) there's some problem with the angle/pressure that isn't allowing it to drain, b) my problem is that I only have the drain pipe resting in the PVC, because I'm not sure if I need to actually seal that connection or c) my install caused some sort of blockage in the pipe in the wall that didn't cause problems before."

Before I get started here, I am going to ask you to think like "water". It always flows down hill, unless there is something to stop it. It will flow into any gap available that is downhill from where it presently is at. Okay, lets move on and look at some answers to your comments:

a) As long as there is an angle to the pipe, water will flow down it. 1/4" drop for every foot. I would think you are okay in the area since, you stated this sink sits higher than you old one.

b) This is a problem. Every joint has be be sealed. On drain lines the most common is the slip joint connection. A piece of pipe has a nut and washer on it, it slides into another pipe which has a threaded fitting on it. The washer slides into the threaded fitting and the nut screws onto the same fitting. This causes a water tight seal. These normally only need to be a bit more than hand tight.

c) This to can be your problem. I will assume you didn't remove the vent pipe inside the wall going up to the roof from the original plumbing. So the only other thing you may have done....was to push the sink drain line to far into the wall drain pipe. If this is the case, you have created a blockage in the wall pipe. All you have to do is loossen the split joint connection at the wall and pull the pipe out about 2".

If you don't have a pop-up stopper, your tail piece will not have a place for the lever....you don't need it.

Once you think you have this all straightened out and to prevent you from haveing to listen to the water run while under the sink. Fill the sink with water, to the overflow. Get in a location under the sink you can see, hear and feel what is going on. Pull the plug. You should be able to hear the water flowing freely through the pipes and not get all wet. There shouldn't be any drips, drops or gushing of water under the sink.

If the old sink worked well, this one should also. If it doesn't think about each step you performed and how it may have adversely affected the flow of water. Double check everything....don't assume you did it correct. At this point you will have to check and re-check.

After all of this, and it still doesn't work...buy yourself one more night. Tell your wife you are hungry and see if she will go out to eat with you. By the time you get back it will be to late to call the plumber!!!
 
  #10  
Old 03-22-07, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jeremya View Post
1 1/2 inch P-trap through the back wall. The old sink bowl sat much LOWER than the new one, so the distance between the drain and the exit on the back wall is now LONGER. I don't know if that means that the water can't make it through the P-trap the way it should, so it gets kicked back up.
The *OLD* sink sat lower? Ohhh. This is easy. This means your new sink underside is higher? This means that there is greater height drop between the underside of the new sink and the pvc hole in the wall? If so...

...all you need is a "tailpipe extension" You can buy 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch ones (at big box or hardware stores) that are 6 inches long. You just compression nut it(it's on the top end) to your existing sink's tailpipe at the bottom of the sink, and stick the bottom of the extension down into the top of the p-trap. That's all there is to it.
 
  #11  
Old 03-26-07, 06:18 AM
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Success - reason for failure

Got it to work! Saved a bunch of $, so back in the wife's good graces (for at least a few hours).

The nice Armando at Ace Hardware told me. If you guys hadn't told me about the missing parts, I wouldn't have gone there.

So, here was the problem...The new drain pipe sat futher from the wall than the original sink. Therefore, I had built the PVC extension with two 45 degree connectors, and left the P trap near the wall. The angle caused pressure problems, which is what sent the water back up.

In order to get it to work, I had to build the extension out from the wall, so that the entry to the P trap was DIRECTLY BENEATH the drain pipe. That way, correct pressure was maintained.

Hope this helps another novice somewhere down the road.
 
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