Installation of Pressure Tank and other plumbing accessories

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  #1  
Old 01-11-08, 11:01 PM
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Question Installation of Pressure Tank and other plumbing accessories

I have a question regarding an installation of a pressure tank.

Heres a little history to give you a better idea of the whole situation...I purchased a home in 2005 in a rural town...The water is fed into my home from a shared well (1 of 3)...however the people who owned the home when the "water deal" was made did not purchase a third pump to feed this home...As I investigated it over the first year, I was informed that a pump feeds my neighbours house into his basement and it is then directed back out of his basement towards my house...I am only receiving 25 - 30 PSI when all faucets, toilets, etc are not in use. When one faucet or one toilet is in use...pressure only decreases to 20 - 25 PSI, but when I turn on the any of the main floor water sources, I lose complete upstairs use (toilet, tub and sink)...until the bottom is complete. (Path of least resistance)

During the first few months of the owning the house...the insurance company told me to replace all of the galvanized with PEX or Copper and CI plumbing with PVC in the home...I was told by a friend (who is very mechanical) to make all of the lines 1/2 in. and that will help increase the pressure (his logic - as if you are putting your finger on the end of a garden hose), to my dismay this worsened the pressure feeding the whole house. My intention is to replace all of the mains with 3/4 and all branches to the existing 1/2 , but at a later date.

Now leading to the main question...the line feeding the home is 1" black plastic pipe and I have installed a Shut off valve and a sediment filter (as there is alot of rust in the water) I want to install a pressure tank that I purchased (Diamond - 82 Gal.) It has a single inlet/outlet on it and I was wondering if I will I be able to just install it after the sediment filter to increase the water pressure in the home. The tank bladder is set to 40 PSI and my fear is that because the tank is pushing back 40 and the feed line is only at 30 it will just push backwards and not into the house...will I need to install a pressure switch, pressure release valve and a check valve....if any and in what order???

I hope this made any sense...I can answer questions to help clear any misunderstandings...Thanks.

D
 
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  #2  
Old 01-12-08, 04:54 AM
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Welcome to the forums! Makes perfectly good sense. I would install, not only a sediment (5 micron) filter, but tandem it with a 3 or 2 micron filter to remove tastes as well, after the 5 micron filter. The pressure tank should have a check valve in it, since, as you say, any pressure going in will go out to the least resistive location, and it could be your neighbor's house. By all means make your main runs 3/4" and your appliance stubs in 1/2". You will note less pressure fluctuations, say, you are in the shower and someone flushes the toilet, the water pressure won't lower too much. Hope this helped, and post back if we can help further.
 
  #3  
Old 01-13-08, 04:59 PM
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Ok...The setup I have thought about is in the order listed....

The water line comes in and I have a Shut off valve (installed), it then leads to Rainfresh Fine Pore Filter Cartridge[CF1-9 Nominal] {5 micron} (installed), Pressure Gauge (installed), Pressure tank (currently not installed), Shut off valve (installed), then another Rainfresh Chlorine, Taste & Odour Filter Cartridge [CF2-8 Nominal] {5 Micron} (installed)...then into the rest of the home...

You suggest tandem installation...does that really matter I have them both installed but at seperate points of the system.

I have no idea what is required to be installed with a pressure tank and I read the instructions and installation requirements, however it lists different setup requirements for different types of well set ups. I have no idea if this unit has a check valve in it...like i said...it uses a single inlet/outlet (and I cant see it having one with a single)...I have seen some tanks that have an inlet and lead to another outlet.
Here is a link for you to see the exact tank I have sitting in my basement waiting for installation.

http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/s...k=P_PartNumber

In the instructions it talks about a Pressure Switch and a Pressure relief valve. Home Depot had no idea what a pressure switch and a pressure relief valve are.... Im not sure on the Pressure Switch...But I assume that a pressure relief is not necessary as my water will never reach 100 PSI. However, are these necessary.

My question is can I just install it as is, right at the current set up I stated at the beginning of this message with this unit.

Kyle
 
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Old 01-13-08, 06:17 PM
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The reason for the tandem installation was for the ease of changing filters at the same time. The pressure gauge will be a part of the tank anyway, so installing at the filter won't gain anything. I would go: water in house, brass ball valve, 5 micron filter, nipple, chlorine filter, brass ball valve, all at eye level, then down to tank and rest of house. But that's an opinion and they are like bellybuttons.
 
  #5  
Old 01-13-08, 06:31 PM
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There will only be one inlet/outlet because you will install a tee off of the water line and run piping to the pressure tank (should show in directions). A pressure switch will allow the tank to draw a limited amount of water (whatever the pressure is)then shut off. The pressure relief valve is for excessive pressure (like on your water heater).
If you install a check valve, you now have a closed system. You should then have an expansion tank installed on the water heater to control pressure due to increase in temperature which would normally escape into the community system and be absorbed. Good luck!
 
  #6  
Old 01-14-08, 09:19 PM
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Well...I spent all day installing the new 3/4" lines in the first section of the basement where all of the black plastic was and I completed my designed system for the filtration & pressure tank.

Before installing...I spoke to a plumber and he advised me of the recommended system (he has knowledge of my home as he is a local man).

He advised me to put a check valve right after the first shut off so I dont pressurize the lines in the yard back to my neighbours house. It then goes the sediment filter and I put a "tee" and one line goes to the pressure tank and the other to the "service" of the home. I put a gauge and a shutoff on that line as well for if future repairs are needed to the pressure tank. I was all excited about it and to my surprise....my pressure actually dropped 8 PSI to 22 PSI. Only main thing I noticed is that i have even distribution to my upstairs as my main floor when I use the main floor and I can use two things at a time...but if anyone knows how much 22 PSI is...not very exilerating!

What could the problem be...is there any way I can increase the pressure to 40 PSI (my desired pressure) throughout the whole house??? Or did I just misunderstand the logic of a pressure tank..I took it as a means to increase pressure not stabalize pressure.

And to respond to Terd...the only way a check valve would make my house a closed system is if I install it the wrong way... and my water heater has nothing to do with this part of the installation...this is all prior to the water heater.

I had two concerns with this project and one occured...spending all day in the crawlspace soldering and cutting, fitting and everything and absolutely nothing happed.
 
  #7  
Old 01-15-08, 01:11 AM
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First off, I'm not a plumber....they must be asleep. Here's my guess:

A pressure tank won't magically raise your pressure, only hold it. If you have 30# going in you won't get any more coming out.

I think you need a pump of some sort to boost the pressure then the tank will hold that. Notice what it says for the tank:

"Universal pump-mounting bracket included."


"It has a single inlet/outlet on it and I was wondering if I will I be able to just install it after the sediment filter to increase the water pressure in the home."

I don't think that's how it works.

Terd Herder (is that a profession?) was correct, once you install a check valve you have a closed system (pressure can't leave your house) and you may need an expansion tank.

I'm sure the pros will be up shortly and give you a more specific answer.


"Or did I just misunderstand the logic of a pressure tank"

I'm not sure but I think so.


Hope it works out.


Baldwin
 

Last edited by Baldwin; 01-15-08 at 01:35 AM. Reason: It's late
  #8  
Old 01-15-08, 02:22 AM
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Here's a booster pump I found, quite expensive and maybe overkill for your problem. There must be something less spendy out there and you sure don't need 110# of pressure but something to think about.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...9829_200329829



Baldwin
 
  #9  
Old 01-15-08, 09:29 PM
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LOL...Baldwin, Terd Herder is a nickname they give plumbers who were in the Air Force. I am sure the other services say it to, but I dont know.

Devist8r, your system is closed, because of the checkvalve nothing can get out of you water supply the wrong way(back to the well) i.e. chemicals, organisms, and high pressure from heat. In a normal system w/o a check valve, pressure can relieve itself by going back into the city side of the water system (or well), thats why its not a big deal. But with a check valve, it has no where to go. And an expansion tank is different than a pressure tank.
http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepa...sureRelief.htm

Read this article, about half way down regarding back flow prevention. Good luck!
 
  #10  
Old 01-15-08, 10:03 PM
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First in response I inquired about a booster pump...I was told that I could have two problems...first being my booster pump could cavitate(spelling) if he dont pump fast enough or I could be pulling faster than the old mans pump next door resulting in the same fashion.

I didnt want to pressurize the neighbours house...I wanted to build pressure in my house as 20 - 30 PSI sucks big time! And I read that article...I will NEVER get anywhere near 120 PSI so why would it matter if the Checkvalve is there...If any pressure is created from my hot water tank...I see it as the more the merrier?

"A pressure tank won't magically raise your pressure, only hold it. If you have 30# going in you won't get any more coming out."

Then why the heck did spend $300 on something that didnt make a difference in my system? If I wanted to remain at 30# I might as well as kept it the way it was...I want to get 40-50 PSI is the home...without spending a fortune! Hence "Pressure Tank" seems to create that assumption in a DIYers.

What can I do to fix the problem with the current setup I have? With minimal amount of work and not removing what I currently have...

I get from everyone that if i remove the checkvalve i will build my pressure back up?
 
  #11  
Old 01-16-08, 08:58 AM
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The check valve is a different, seperate issue from your water pressure. Deal with that seperately.
All wells, will have a decrease in pressure when the tank pressure goes down. City pressure can have the same effect...if pipe sizing is incorrect.
My house, on city water has a 3/4 inch main coming in. If I try to run the shower and the kitchen sink the pressure and volume of water coming out is greatly reduced.

Call a well guy, and see if you can boost the pressure in the tank higher. Have them come out, give you their personal/professional opinion.
I dont think you wasted your time or money, you got a big tank to hold a good amount of water, you increased the sizing of piping. Money well spent.

Read about the closed system and the effect it can have on plumbing...its not a "good" pressure.
Also, seperate these projects, so they wont seem overwelming if you feel that way, you have done quite a bit! Good luck!
 
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