Relocating Washing Machine Drain Hose

Reply

  #1  
Old 07-19-08, 10:06 AM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 193
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Relocating Washing Machine Drain Hose

Hey All... My wife and I have lived in our first home for just over a year. We've been battling the laundry machine which drains into the sink next to it. It frequently clogs and overflows. We've just about had enough of it.

I want to run the drain hose into the sewer line and have what I think is a pretty good option but I thought I would ask first.

Below are 2 images of my situation... the first is the hose draining into the sink. Behind it you can see a pipe coming up and bending back down.



Now what's happening here is the sink drains into a line that runs directly into the sewer line. But before it goes into that main line, they have this offshoot line with two "Y" connections that comes up and back down to the same line.



What I'm thinking of doing is cutting the top of that loop and capping the right one and dropping the drain hose into the other one. Can I do that. is there some weird reason why this loop is in this line? There is nothing else on this drain line, just the sink.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Fish
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 07-19-08, 10:56 AM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,495
Received 36 Votes on 28 Posts
I want some more pictures! Specifically, I want to see just what is going into the sewer connection immediately to the right of the laundry sink connection as it appears the laundry sink connection wyes into the main sewer connection just outside of the block wall.

Since you have PVC on the laundry sink drain all the way to a cast iron connection I'm assuming that the double wye to the loop is someone's idea of a vent. Of course it doesn't work as a vent and is actually quite useless as a vent. I suspect that somewhere that line is partially plugged unless the plugs you are experiencing are all at the basket strainer in the sink.

I also see a potential problem in the lint catcher on the washing machine's discharge hose. That is really a huge amount of lint and I wonder if you are washing too many clothes at one time and they are wearing against each other creating a large amount of lint.

Anyway, to answer your question...no, you may NOT simply cut the loop piping and insert your drain hose as you have indicated. You will need to construct a trap for the washer drain and you need to add a vent for that trap. It may be that you can utilize the downstream riser (the one you were planning on capping) with an air admittance valve but let's see what Mark has to say first.
 
  #3  
Old 07-19-08, 11:22 AM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 193
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hey Furd, thanks for the reply...

I want some more pictures! Specifically, I want to see just what is going into the sewer connection immediately to the right of the laundry sink connection as it appears the laundry sink connection wyes into the main sewer connection just outside of the block wall.
Yes the main sewer connection does connect with that basement sink outside the wall (seems odd). The main line has the rest of the house running into it. I have a basement bathroom comes straight in and the rest of the upstairs lines wye in right at the block wall.

Since you have PVC on the laundry sink drain all the way to a cast iron connection I'm assuming that the double wye to the loop is someone's idea of a vent. Of course it doesn't work as a vent and is actually quite useless as a vent. I suspect that somewhere that line is partially plugged unless the plugs you are experiencing are all at the basket strainer in the sink.

I also see a potential problem in the lint catcher on the washing machine's discharge hose. That is really a huge amount of lint and I wonder if you are washing too many clothes at one time and they are wearing against each other creating a large amount of lint.
The reason it is backing up is because the discharge from the washer seems to be faster than the sink can drain. Also that plugged up lint catcher (which I definitely need to clean) sprays from the voids vs flowing. Its just messy all around.

I'll snap a few more pics for you in a few.

Thanks,

Fish
 
  #4  
Old 07-19-08, 12:01 PM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,495
Received 36 Votes on 28 Posts
The reason it is backing up is because the discharge from the washer seems to be faster than the sink can drain.
That is either a really small sink or the drain is seriously slow. Washing machines made in the last ten or fifteen years discharge their water really fast and they require a 2 inch drain all the way to the main sewer connection. People that have only a 1-1/2 inch drain usually can have a laundry sink for the discharge from the machine and have the sink drain to the 1-1/2 inch piping using the sink as a surge arrestor. The sink will fill somewhat but the drain is enough to keep the sink from overflowing.

That looks to me to be 2-inch piping but maybe the picture is deceiving. I suspect that there may be some serious clogging where the cast iron wyes into the main sewer outside the house. That close ninety just before entering the CI is also suspect. I think I would plan on re-doing the entire drain from the CI back to the sink.
 
  #5  
Old 07-19-08, 12:27 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 21,113
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
No expert...but wanna bet on whether there is a vent for that sink?? That would slow the draining quite a bit, esp when the washer dumps 10-15 gal in about 2 min.
 
  #6  
Old 07-19-08, 01:29 PM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,495
Received 36 Votes on 28 Posts
No, a vent will have very little to do with how fast it drains, only whether or not it will siphon the trap. And there is a vent on the main sewer just a few feet away.
 
  #7  
Old 07-19-08, 01:46 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 21,113
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
furd

Hmmm ok, like I said..no plumbing guy here. Guess I was just thinking more about something like a soda bottle. Straight up, it has to gurgle and burp and its splashes like crazy. Angle it so air can get in, smooth fast flow. Punch a big enuf hole in the bottom and it shoots right out.

Wait..thats shooting a beer!

Anyway....just tryin ta help.
 
  #8  
Old 07-19-08, 02:08 PM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 193
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hey Guys. This should clear up a few questions. a bunch more pics attached. Also. the sink is a split sink so the washer drains into a slightly smaller sink than normal. And because of that, the split does allow for a vent for the water to "gurgle".

Also, The basement laundry sink drains into a 1 1/2" pipe.



Split Sink


Dual drain (washer drains on the right one) water is not from leak just from sink overflow.


Main sewer line comes down vertical and out. Black PVC is just for the downstairs full bathroom drainage


Main line sewer drain wyes


Close up of wye heading into cinder block wall

Thanks again for all the help.

Fish
>
 
  #9  
Old 07-19-08, 03:20 PM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,495
Received 36 Votes on 28 Posts
Gunguy, I'm not a plumber either but I have done some plumbing design work. Rather than thinking of a pop bottle turned upside down think of a funnel with a constricted spout. There is no vacuum being developed above the funnel outlet or the sink as there would be in a pop bottle. The vent on a sewer drain is installed after the trap so you can see that it has little effect upon the water (or soda or beer) going down the drain.

Fishnyc, thanks for the extra pictures. Now that I see that the sink is not a deep laundry tub it makes a whole lot more sense. If you are not wedded to that double sink I would suggest that you replace it with a plastic or copolymer laundry sink from the big box store.

It also looks like the drain from the right sink is going slightly uphill to the left sink but maybe that is just an illusion due to camera angle. If it does go uphill then all you need to do is get a bit longer tailpiece for the left sink and cut a bit from the riser between the tee and the trap inlet. Or get two new tailpieces and drop the connection a bit.

Is that all copper piping on the drain? If so I would cut that out and make a trip to the junkman or metal recycler. I know how much you like working on CI drainage but it may be possible to replace that copper with 2-inch PVC (BTW, your black plastic is ABS, not PVC) and judicious use of 1/16th and !/8th bends with a wye to get both a cleanout and the laundry drain into that existing CI line. You could then also have a standpipe for the washer discharge if you desired but I would always want to have the deep sink anyway.

Have you ever closed that valve on the drain under the sink? That is unusual and I would rather not see a valve on a drain. If you feel a valve is necessary then I would much rather see a full-port ball valve than that gate valve. Anything but a ball valve could have a tendency to grab hold of lint and such going down the drain and it would be a real impediment to snaking the drain.

Does the outboard end (furthest from the cast iron) of your ABS basement bathroom drain have a clean out plug?
 
  #10  
Old 07-19-08, 03:36 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 21,113
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
thx again furd
Yeah I see what you mean on the vent thing.

Wow, a valve on a drain? Whats up with that? Sounds like my Navy days.

And also, is that a straight Tee on the second sink? That wouldn't help either I'm thinking. Fine for a sink, but not with the volume the washer puts out? Yes, no, maybe?

Just exploring possibilities and trying to learn here.

BTW I hate plumbing!!!
 
  #11  
Old 07-19-08, 04:03 PM
R
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 110
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Valve could closed to prevent sewage backups when the public system hiccups.
 
  #12  
Old 07-19-08, 04:36 PM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,495
Received 36 Votes on 28 Posts
Yep, just like a skin valve on a ship...and if my house were a ship I would definitely want skin valves on the drains!

That's a "standard" slip-joint tee as used on sink drains. It might have been a bit better if the the sink collecting the washing machine discharge was draining through the "run" of the tee but I doubt if it would be a significant difference.

As for "hating plumbing"...I had an old plumber (actually he was about the same age as I am now, he died young) tell me that, "Plumbing is one of the most important things there are. Just try to go a few days without taking a dump!"

Now that I think about it, Ben was a couple of years younger than I am now.
 
  #13  
Old 07-19-08, 05:06 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 21,113
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
lol
I've got bushes and an alley for the dumps and other. Wifey, on the other hand, wouldn't be happy. Hey, I've heard its better to squat anyway.

Wouldn't a Y (or a curved T, whatever the heck its called) be better?

Where the heck are you plumber guys? Out on yer yachts?
 
  #14  
Old 07-19-08, 05:47 PM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 193
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks again for all the help guys. really appreciate it.

Originally Posted by furd View Post
If you are not wedded to that double sink I would suggest that you replace it with a plastic or copolymer laundry sink from the big box store.
Thats not a bad idea. I'm def up for that as a solution. Those two small sinks are kind of useless for cleaning things anyway. Would be nice to have one big one. If I do that can I skip the stuff below?

Originally Posted by furd View Post
It also looks like the drain from the right sink is going slightly uphill to the left sink but maybe that is just an illusion due to camera angle. If it does go uphill then all you need to do is get a bit longer tailpiece for the left sink and cut a bit from the riser between the tee and the trap inlet. Or get two new tailpieces and drop the connection a bit.
Yes. it actually does do that slightly. That can make that much of a difference? Aye? Didnt think it hurt that much but I guess you're right it prob does. If I opt to not get a new sink, I'll do this.

Originally Posted by furd View Post
Is that all copper piping on the drain? If so I would cut that out and make a trip to the junkman or metal recycler.
Yes it is, some of it was painted does that matter. Is it worth much?

Originally Posted by furd View Post
I know how much you like working on CI drainage but
Ughh... I know where you're going with this.

Originally Posted by furd View Post
it may be possible to replace that copper with 2-inch PVC (BTW, your black plastic is ABS, not PVC) and judicious use of 1/16th and !/8th bends with a wye to get both a cleanout and the laundry drain into that existing CI line. You could then also have a standpipe for the washer discharge if you desired but I would always want to have the deep sink anyway.
OK. so you're suggesting tearing out all the PVC to the CI and replacing the line with 2". Not replacing that useless loop thats in there and still draining into a large sink instead of into a standpipe. Do you mean that you wouldnt trust a standpipe and a large sink can be trusted more to prevent overflow? if so, Is it worth all this for a 1/2 change in diameter pipe? Or is the bigger sink the better answer? cause that one sounds a lot easier

Originally Posted by furd View Post
Have you ever closed that valve on the drain under the sink? That is unusual and I would rather not see a valve on a drain. If you feel a valve is necessary then I would much rather see a full-port ball valve than that gate valve. Anything but a ball valve could have a tendency to grab hold of lint and such going down the drain and it would be a real impediment to snaking the drain.
I've never closed that valve. in fact I didnt even know it was there until I took the picture. I'm not sure its necessary, I've never had a backup before.

Originally Posted by furd View Post
Does the outboard end (furthest from the cast iron) of your ABS basement bathroom drain have a clean out plug?
Hmm. It does but it runs about 10 feet long and tapers down to 2" for the shower after it passes the toilet and sink.

Thanks again!

dave
 
  #15  
Old 07-19-08, 06:03 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 21,113
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
What? No props to me? Hey I post too!!

LOL just messin...

So where the heck are those plumbing guys? I swear... the lake/ocean/bay's not that big. Come on guys, gotta be in before dark!


Ok, wayyy too much time on my hands......
 
  #16  
Old 07-19-08, 06:45 PM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,495
Received 36 Votes on 28 Posts
The plumbers seem to be missing from most of the DIY boards today, not too many electricians present either.

Fishnyc, If you get rid of the double sink and install the deep sink then all you need to do is couple up the new drain trap to the existing copper drain. I would cut that valve off and then you can use one of those rubber couplings (Fernco or mission or whatever) that has the stainless steel outer shield and hose clamps to make the transition. Be sure to use a half-round file or something to remove the internal burr on the copper after cutting or it WILL snag lint going down the drain.

I think that scrap copper piping is going for about $2.50 a pound these days.

No, I don't think the uphill travel of the existing sink drain into the tee connector is making much difference, it's just not right.

An upchange from a 1-1/2 inch drain pipe to a 2 inch drain pipe would roughly double the carrying capacity of the drain. However, the deep sink will most likely give you a workable drain at much less work.

I only asked about the ABS on the basement bathroom group because if it had been run full size to the end it would have made a dandy point for running a full-size sewer pipe cutter all the way to the street. Probably not a big deal.

So here's your assignment for tomorrow: You and your wife get dressed up and go check out the laundry tubs at the big box stores. Then go to a nice restaurant for an early dinner. Don't forget to thank the Gunguy when you drink a toast to the new deep sink.


Oh, and Gunguy, while a more streamlined wye or something might theoretically be better than that slip-joint tee I don't think it would make much difference in the real world. Besides, I don't even think such a beast is made for slip joints.
 
  #17  
Old 07-19-08, 11:53 PM
F
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 193
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hey GunGuy.. No offense I apprecate all the responses just tended to focus on what Furd was suggesting.

I give the bigger sink and new drain to the copper a try with the furnco coupling. I'm heading out of town tomorrow but when I get back I'll be sure to get myself that big old sink and give it a shot.

Much appreciated. Thanks fellas. I'll post back when I make some progress

Fish
 
  #18  
Old 07-20-08, 03:05 PM
plumbingods's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Manch-vegas, New Hampshire
Posts: 2,180
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Ok OK, sorry, I went away to a wedding

I will be back after I finish reading this thread.
 
  #19  
Old 07-20-08, 04:56 PM
plumbingods's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Manch-vegas, New Hampshire
Posts: 2,180
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hello all, I'mmm Baaccckkkkk!

After looking at the pictures and reading the posts, I have come to a couple solutions.

Solution 1:

Cut both of the copper lines about 2" above the drain line. Cap 1 with a rubber cap. With the use of a fernco (2 hose clamps with rubber connector), or a mission (2 hose clamps with rubber connector and metal band) style clamp, convert the copper to PVC or ABS. Called an 1 1/2" copper x PVC/ABS connector. The larger side will connect to the PVC, and the smaller to the copper. ( I am calling the plastic pipe PVC) Add a 4" piece of 1 1/2" plastic pipe then a 1 1/2" PVC TY fitting. On the top of the TY, add a piece of PVC about 5' long and put a mechanical vent on the top of it. Then on the branch of the TY put an 1 1/2" PVC p-trap with a standpipe of about 38", and find a way to anchor it. I sometimes drill a hole thought the top back of the pipe and put an anchor in the wall and screw it in there. Works pretty good.

That is all you really have to do. Is it perfect? NO Is it within code? Not positive
Will it work, and is it better than before? YES

Washing machine drains have been piped with 1 1/2" pipe for many years, Even about 8 tears ago we were piping that way in brand new homes. You just need to put a longer standpipe on it.

The only problem is NH just changed code books to the IPC2008 and I haven't purchased one yet, so I cannot be 100% positive if it is up to code. But it will be fine.

Solution 2:

Remove all piping all the way to the cast iron and replace with 2" pvc if possible. Them repipe similar to what I just said.

Changing the sink to a standard laundry sink will help if you are going to keep using the sink as the drain. But if you do, still at least add the vent.
One more thing, the valve under the sink could have been installed for two reasons. One would be, maybe in the spring, water would back up the line so they would shut it off. If that is the case it should have a check valve not a manual valve.
OR
It could have been valved off at one time and not used, then when they tied in the sink they never removed it.
 
  #20  
Old 07-20-08, 05:09 PM
Gunguy45's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 21,113
Received 3 Votes on 3 Posts
So..how was the fishing/skiing? lol
 
  #21  
Old 07-20-08, 05:58 PM
plumbingods's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Manch-vegas, New Hampshire
Posts: 2,180
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I was at a wedding on Lake Winnepesaukee, NH. My friend, the bride has some wealthy parents. The reception was at their private yacht club. I only knew 4 people. I would have been better off going fishing. I just didn't fit in.
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: