Laundry suds come up through main drain?

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Old 08-05-08, 11:16 AM
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Laundry suds come up through main drain?

Hi!

Whenever our washing machine pumps out water, laundry suds come up with some water with it. Our laundry room piping is as follows:

1. Laundry drain pipe - 45" tall that goes into the concrete.

2. Main sewer drain (where the suds and water come out) is about 5' away from laundry drain pipe. I installed a one-way rubber float valve in the main drain so that laundry suds/water wouldn't come up but any water in the laundry room would drain down, but the suds and water still come up?? I run our air conditioning drain into the main drain, so I can't cap it in summer time. During the winter, I cap the main drain off.

3. Laundry sink (installed about 5 years ago) is about 5' away from the laundry drain pipe (in which the laundry sink drains into). I cut the laundry drain pipe about 12" above the concrete floor and installed a wye so that I could tie the laundry sink into the laundry drain (hopefully this makes sense).

When I tied into the laundry drain pipe to hook in the laundry sink, the suds and water started to come up through the drain. So one could conclude that the laundry sink is the cause of the problem. I put the plug in the laundry sink when the washing machine pumps out, but still suds and water come up.

Any idea what I should do to stop the suds and water from coming up? I even ran a commercial sewer snake into the drain to see if there were any blockages, but this was of no help.

Any ideas / suggestions / advice / comments?

Howitzer
 
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Old 08-06-08, 10:45 AM
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confusion

i read your question 4 times, very confusion, will you resubmit. using a different word than laundry. the laundry room drain? what is that? is it a clean out in the floor?
the laundry room pipe? is that a horionital pipe from the concrete up to the ceiling? is a laundry sink tied into this line? so now it is a sink vent? did you tie your washer drain into the sink vent? above or below the t fitting for the sink?
please try again
 
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Old 08-06-08, 10:46 AM
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anyone have input on my predicament?
 
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Old 08-06-08, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by frodo View Post
i read your question 4 times, very confusion, will you resubmit. using a different word than laundry. the laundry room drain? what is that? is it a clean out in the floor?
the laundry room pipe? is that a horizontal pipe from the concrete up to the ceiling? is a laundry sink tied into this line? so now it is a sink vent? did you tie your washer drain into the sink vent? above or below the t fitting for the sink?
please try again
1. The drain pipe for the washing machine comes out of the concrete and is 45" in height. The sink drains into this pipe (I cut the washing machine drain pipe about 12" above the concrete floor, and added a wye). The wye attached to the sink waste line. So I guess the washing machine drain pipe opening is a vent for the sink.

2. Into the concrete, the water runs about 5' where the main floor drain is (the suds come up through here). I think there is a trap in this drain to keep the sewer gases out.

Does this make more sense? should I take pictures?
 

Last edited by Howitzer; 08-06-08 at 10:58 AM. Reason: addition needed
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Old 08-06-08, 11:54 AM
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drain

ok i'am getten closer, the pipe that comes out of the concrete. is there a p-trap below the concrete? because right now you have a washing machine draining without a trap
is this right? also if it has a trap , you cant tie a sink into
a stand pipe for a washing machine. any way what is going on is that you have the floor drain to close to where the washer ties into it. by code it cant tie in closer than 10 ft due to suds relief. is this a basement do you need the floor drain.? find out the size of the floor drain, go to the plumbing supply house and by a 3inch or 4 inch test blow up ball. put it in the floor drain and blow it up. in event you need the drain, all ya gotta do is let the air out. or we can bust some concrete. and plumb this place right. you have more plumbing violations, than a frog has legs. holer back iam just sitten here for about an hour
 
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Old 08-11-08, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by frodo View Post
ok i'am getten closer, the pipe that comes out of the concrete. is there a p-trap below the concrete? because right now you have a washing machine draining without a trap is this right? also if it has a trap , you cant tie a sink into a stand pipe for a washing machine. any way what is going on is that you have the floor drain to close to where the washer ties into it. by code it cant tie in closer than 10 ft due to suds relief.
Frodo,

I'm not sure if there is a P trap under the concrete (from the laundry pipe to the main drain). There is (no doubt) a big P trap from the main drain to the main sewer line out of the house. Before I tied in the sink into the washing machine line, suds was not a problem. Why would the sink be the problem? I put the plug in the sink (so the air in the sink line is sealed), but it didn't help.

Originally Posted by frodo View Post
Is this a basement do you need the floor drain.? find out the size of the floor drain, go to the plumbing supply house and by a 3inch or 4 inch test blow up ball. put it in the floor drain and blow it up. in event you need the drain, all ya gotta do is let the air out. or we can bust some concrete. and plumb this place right. you have more plumbing violations, than a frog has legs. holer back iam just sitten here for about an hour
test blow up ball? I put the cap on the main drain during the winter months when the A/C doesn't need to drain.
 
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Old 08-11-08, 12:39 PM
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can you post a picture of the plumbing in this room.
 
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Old 08-11-08, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by frodo View Post
can you post a picture of the plumbing in this room.
I'll take a few pics for you.
 
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Old 08-11-08, 01:37 PM
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First off Howitzer,

Didn't I already answer this question once? If not then here it is.
What is your water like? I have ran into situations where the water was too soft causing excessive suds.

Also what size pipe is the washer drain, what kind of pipe is it, and how old is the drain?

If someone flushes a toilet from anywhere in the house, can you here the water running from inside the washer stand pipe? If yes. there is no trap and should be fixed. If no, there is a trap and the sink should not be tied into the same line.

Let's start there.


Frodo, I would normally be sending you a private message about what I am about to say, but you must have that option turned off in your personal options.

First,
I am not impressed with the way you speak to some of the members. You need to remember that they are not plumbers and don't always know the things we do. Sometimes I can't understand what you are trying to say to a member, and I am a Master plumber.

Secondly,
It seems quite often you seem to run your mouth before reading all the facts, or ask nicely for more info.

Third,
Only give help if you know and understand what you are talking about. I am not saying I don't forget things sometimes but I try to read all the posts before answering anyone so I can be as correct and safe with my knowledge.

By the way, horizontal goes from left to right and vertical goes from top to bottom, hence, from the floor to the ceiling would not be horizontal, but vertical.

Like I say, I wish I had another way to talk to you, but you left me no option.
Also, if you are going to answer many question as you have, it would be nice if you filled out you profile so members will know more about your credentials. Thank you, Mark
 
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Old 08-11-08, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by frodo View Post
can you post a picture of the plumbing in this room.








 
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Old 08-11-08, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by plumbingods View Post
First off Howitzer,

Didn't I already answer this question once? If not then here it is.
What is your water like? I have ran into situations where the water was too soft causing excessive suds.
I believe our water is of average hardness. We have a water softener.

Originally Posted by plumbingods View Post
Also what size pipe is the washer drain, what kind of pipe is it, and how old is the drain?
the pipe size is 1 1/2", ABS is the pipe type. The drain I believe was installed when the house was built in 1975.

Originally Posted by plumbingods View Post
If someone flushes a toilet from anywhere in the house, can you here the water running from inside the washer stand pipe? If yes. there is no trap and should be fixed. If no, there is a trap and the sink should not be tied into the same line.

Let's start there.
I'll have to check this and get back to you. Please check out the pics I posted.
 
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Old 08-12-08, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Howitzer View Post
I believe our water is of average hardness. We have a water softener.



the pipe size is 1 1/2", ABS is the pipe type. The drain I believe was installed when the house was built in 1975.



I'll have to check this and get back to you. Please check out the pics I posted.
1. I could not hear a flushing noise in the washer stand pipe after flushing a toilet. So this tells me that there is a trap present. This trap is the main 3" or 4" sewer trap hooked into the main drain isn't it?

2. If I put the plug in the sink, wouldn't that seal off the air flow from the sink so that it would be like the sink isn't present and thus prove that the sink is the problem? I put in the plug and the problem remains. ???

3. If the sink can't be tied in because of the trap, what else can I do?
 
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Old 08-12-08, 02:47 PM
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Hopefully, not hearing any sound means there is an 1 1/2" trap just below the standpipe.

The reason you should not tie the sink into the standpipe is number one, the washing machine is a pumped device. Two, if there is a trap under the sink, as there should be, that makes it double trapped, which is against code. You would need to tie it into the drain after the trap for the washing machine.

If your water softener is working correctly, I would say you have a partially plugged drain, so the soap does not drain as it should, causing the suds to back up the pipe.

I would try a good professional dry drain cleaner. If you can get Green Blaster, I have had great success with it. Make sure to follow the direction... Do not use on a completely plugged drain.
 
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Old 08-12-08, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by plumbingods View Post
Hopefully, not hearing any sound means there is an 1 1/2" trap just below the standpipe.
I believe there is a large main sewer trap for the main drain. Plus there is no doubt a trap just below the standpipe.

Originally Posted by plumbingods View Post
The reason you should not tie the sink into the standpipe is number one, the washing machine is a pumped device. Two, if there is a trap under the sink, as there should be, that makes it double trapped, which is against code. You would need to tie it into the drain after the trap for the washing machine.
so for the washing machine, I would have to tie into the drain line after the trap in the concrete floor?

Originally Posted by plumbingods View Post
If your water softener is working correctly, I would say you have a partially plugged drain, so the soap does not drain as it should, causing the suds to back up the pipe.

I would try a good professional dry drain cleaner. If you can get Green Blaster, I have had great success with it. Make sure to follow the direction... Do not use on a completely plugged drain.
I used a big commercial snake to clean out the main drain, but I didn't clean out the standpipe drain... could I use a hand snake?
 
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Old 08-12-08, 06:14 PM
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Leaving the sink the way you have it is not really going to hurt anything, It is just not correct.

If you were to fix it, you would need to tie in after the WM trap or tie into the main stack/drain someplace.


I would definitely snake the WM drain as the problem could even be in the trap. But it may be between the trap and the main. Sometimes it is very hard to snake through the trap, that is why I suggested drain cleaner first.

In my state we are not allowed house traps as that causes double trapping.
 
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Old 08-13-08, 08:34 PM
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Something that I don't see mentioned is the possibility that you are using far more detergent in the washing machine than is necessary. This could mean a great deal of suds being washed down the drain and this will indeed cause a back-up in an otherwise free-flowing drain.

With modern detergents you only need a slight amount of sudsing action in the washing machine. A high level of suds does nothing but waste money.
 
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Old 08-14-08, 01:49 PM
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I put some "Draino" down the standpipe, and then flushed the line with hot water. Now only a little bit of suds comes up (only about the diameter of the drain cover. Before this, the suds would be 24" in diameter). Should I put more "Draino" down the standpipe?
 
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Old 08-14-08, 01:56 PM
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Yes, run more chemical down the pipe, Let it set for 15 mins before flushing out. You should be using a powdered type, not liquid. Pour some powder chemical, then por 1 cup hot water, then let it sit. Sometimes it uses hot water to help activate it.
 
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Old 11-23-08, 12:41 PM
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Update from this old post: I bought a back-flow preventer valve that is basically has a ping-pong ball in ABS frame... it works great!
 
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