8 spline shutoff handle


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Old 04-06-10, 05:57 PM
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8 spline shutoff handle

I have a small leak on my Moen shower valve. After removing the large cover plate to expose the hot and cold valves, I found the valve stems to be 8 spline with no handles.

Anybody know where I can get a 8 spline handle to turn the valve stems to shut off the water so I can replace the leaking cartridge? Is there anything else other than a round handle that could fit on an 8 spline valve stem sort of like an extension to fit on a ratchet. I don't need a ratchet for torque, but because of how the valves are positioned, even a round handle my be impossible to turn. If I could get something that would go straight into the opening and onto the stem, it would work a whole lot better.

I'd rather not shut down all the water to the house and I can't get a pair of pliers into the small opening to turn the stems.

Haven't been to "big orange" yet but my local hardware only had 12 and 16 spline handles.

I'll probably have to try a plumbing supply house if HD doesn't have them.
 
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Old 04-07-10, 11:31 AM
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Question

If you are talking about the service shut offs they usually have a screwdriver slot in them.
 
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Old 04-09-10, 09:38 AM
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No Dice

Shacko,

Thanks for the reply, but these do not. They have a threaded hole for the screw that holds the round gate valve handle on.

I have found an old Nibco brand exterior frost proof faucet handle that has the same 8 spline configuration. Unfortunately, the handle is way to big to fit in the area where the shower trim plate was removed and seat onto the valve stem.

I am in the process of cutting the Nibco handle down to fit. It will end up looking like a nut with the portion that fits onto the stem of the valve sticking out of the back of the "nut". I'll then be able to put a socket on the "nut" portion and turn the valve stem.

At least that is the plan. I put this process off till this coming Sunday as I'm committed to other things this weekend and I have another shower in the house.

I've heard that these Moen shower valve cartridge replacements can turn into a real turd fest, especially with older cartridges like mine, so I want to get started early because with my luck it will be a multi-hour affair.
 
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Old 04-09-10, 10:11 AM
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I'm not sure I understand what you're saying however would a basin wrench work to get a grip on the stem?
 
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Old 04-09-10, 10:25 AM
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last resort

My last resort will be to try some type of wrench on the stems. I'm not even sure the basin wrench would get to the stems, but I'll pull mine out and see in case my homemade rig doesn't work.

Thanks for the suggestion.
 
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Old 04-09-10, 06:31 PM
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I can't help but ask: Why don't you want to shut off the whole house? Because you think changing a Moen cartridge will take hours? Or are you in some kind of shared dwelling (and/or rental),making this impossible? I'm not sure what kind of Moen you have, but changing cartridges that I have ever changed in any faucet or mixer, goes fast.
 
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Old 04-11-10, 07:33 AM
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Thumbs down A Real Fiasco

Ecman,

Thanks for the reply. I'm glad you have had success with Moen cartridge replacements, but mine continues to be a real fiasco.

I was able to turn the stems on the shutoff valves behind the shower wall, but apparently the washers in the valves are so old, they don't seal the valve and water continues to come out of the main shower valve.

The reason I don't want to turn off the whole house is--WOMEN. You name it, they need water for it, but they will have to go shopping while I continue on this cartridge replacement and turn off all the water.

I fully suspect I will be faced with the core of the cartridge coming out and the outer brass shell of the cartridge fused to the shower valve body from 28 years of acidic well water.

I'm off to go get a 1/2 tap and bolt as this appears to be the only way to get thew outer brass sleeve out--Google "Stuck Moen shower valve"--and you'll see what I may (most likely will) be faced with.

Maybe I'll get lucky and the entire assembly will come out once I shut off the water--but I doubt it. At least I'll have all of the tools ready to go if I need them.

If I can't get this assembly out, then I'll have to replace the entire shower valve which means tearing out the sink and base cabinet and drywall in the adjoining bathroom to gain access to the shower valve from the rear.

Maybe I'll pick up some drywall also as I can see where this project is heading!!!!
 
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Old 04-17-10, 10:58 AM
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Success!!!!

Tackled the Moen cartridge replacement this morning fully expecting a complete mess.

Shut off the main, bled out some water and then pulled the retainer clip. I had purchased a Moen cartridge puller but wasn't expecting it to work based on a lot of posts on a variety of web sites. Most said that either the tabs broke off of the cartridge, the cartridge pulled out leaving the outer shell stuck in the valve body or the inner cartridge broke off.

I figured I'd give it a shot. A plumber at a supply house told me that if I was going to use the cartridge puller to make sure I rotated the cartridge 90 degrees in each direction first which should free up the brass outer shell from the valve body and break loose any mineral deposits that held the outer shell of the cartridge to the valve body.

Locked the puller onto the stem and to my surprise, the entire cartridge turned both left and right. I then gave it a tug and it pulled right out of the valve body. Both the wife and I are looking at the cartridge on the end of the puller saying that it can't be that easy, but it was.

Cleaned the inside of the valve body with CLR and a round wire brush, rinsed well with water and lubed up the new cartridge and inside of the valve body.

A minor issue getting the retaining clip back in but after pushing on the stem with one hand and pushing down on the retaining clip with the other, it snapped in place.

Water was turned back on and got a surprise when I had hot on the right and cold on the left. Turned the water back off, pulled out the cartridge and rotated it 180 degrees and reassembled everything. Water back on and everything works fine. No leaks, good pressure and now I have my shower back and the women (and their 100 bottles of shampoo, lotions and other potions) are back in their bathroom!!!

I guess the lesson learned is prepare for the worst and be thankful when you catch a break and a project turns out to be rather easy.

Total time start to finish was 30 minutes, but that included having to pull the cartridge back out and rotate it around.

Now it's back to Lowes to return the variety of items I had purchased just in case I had to resort to other measures to get this cartridge out.Beer 4U2
 
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Old 04-17-10, 02:51 PM
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Sarge,

It sounds like you would make a fine conscientious plumber.
 
 

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