Drainage layout and advice for Horse Barn


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Old 08-13-10, 08:57 PM
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Drainage layout and advice for Horse Barn

Hello everyone….I’m looking for some help with running some drain pipe throughout a new horse barn that has just been framed out. There are 6 horse stalls with drains in them and 4 drains spaced out in the main aisle (drains will be covered with removable tiles during normal, everyday use---only uncovered when washing down the stalls). I also want to add a sink in the tack room. I’m a novice when it comes to plumbing – I can tackle any task, but as far as materials and layout for this project, I need some help. I am going to be pouring a 4” concrete floor over the entire area. The drains will tie together and drain to a dry well.
My questions are:

- What size pipe do I need to use for each of the drains and what type of material? – PVC?
- Do I need the drains before I pour the concrete so I can attach them (without the grates of course) to the top of each pipe coming up to be flush with the floor?
- I’m going to pitch the drain pipes ¼” per foot --- correct?
- These pipes just need to be under the ground and then pitched to whatever depth they are at the end of the run---correct? They do not have to start at a certain depth, do they?
- For the trenches  some kind of paper material, then gravel, lay the pipe, then gravel on top???
- What is the best fitting to use to tie in each drain pipe to the main line?
- For the sink  I will most likely be purchasing an electric hot water heater…how do I run the lines from the water heater to the sink? – under or above ground?
- The barn is not insulated or heated…how will the water lines for the sink not freeze in the cold weather? – Is there a way to specifically avoid this with a sink in the barn?
- What size pipe is best to run to the sink for water lines? And should I use copper or pex?
- 2” drain pipe for the sink I assume? And does the 2” pipe just tie into the main drain line or do I need to transition to the size of the main pipe? And obviously I don’t need to vent this pipe as there is not a septic system in the barn – correct?
- Sorry for so many questions, but this will be a great help to me to get this started.
Thanks in advance!
 
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Old 08-14-10, 08:48 AM
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Some answers and suggestions. There are a multitude of ways to do this, so others may have other suggestions.

- What size pipe do I need to use for each of the drains and what type of material? – PVC?
At least 2", I'd probably use 3 or 4" PVC since you know hay, shavings, etc will be going down that drain. Definitely PVC (or ABS).

- Do I need the drains before I pour the concrete so I can attach them (without the grates of course) to the top of each pipe coming up to be flush with the floor?
Yes. Different drains will assemble differently, but regardless, you'll need to know exactly how high to mount the drains to align with the finished floor.

- I’m going to pitch the drain pipes ¼” per foot --- correct?
Yes, though you may want to go for 1/2" per foot to help drain out any other things in the pipes.

- These pipes just need to be under the ground and then pitched to whatever depth they are at the end of the run---correct? They do not have to start at a certain depth, do they?
They need to be deep enough to allow a reasonable about of cement above them so the slab doesn't crack. (If it's only 3/4" under the finished floor, the 3/4" probably won't allow a strong enough slab.

- For the trenches  some kind of paper material, then gravel, lay the pipe, then gravel on top???
The pipes get laid in gravel as you said, and you'll need a vapor barrier. I'll have to defer this to someone who's more familiar with pouring cement slabs.

- What is the best fitting to use to tie in each drain pipe to the main line?
Wye or combo wye

- For the sink  I will most likely be purchasing an electric hot water heater…how do I run the lines from the water heater to the sink? – under or above ground?
I'd run them above ground to help with future replacement, expansion, problems, etc. Plus, you don't have to worry about them pre-slab.

- The barn is not insulated or heated…how will the water lines for the sink not freeze in the cold weather? – Is there a way to specifically avoid this with a sink in the barn?
The easiest answer is to heat the room a bit to keep it above freezing. The water heater will keep the room warm too, though I'd insulate the room that the sink is in and put in a baseboard heater. Plus, it will be a nice place to go on cold days. You can also use pipe heating tape, but it really only protects the pipes and will have trouble keeping the fixtures from freezing.

- What size pipe is best to run to the sink for water lines? And should I use copper or pex?
Either. Both require freeze protection. PEX is probably easier and cheaper these days.

- 2” drain pipe for the sink I assume? And does the 2” pipe just tie into the main drain line or do I need to transition to the size of the main pipe? And obviously I don’t need to vent this pipe as there is not a septic system in the barn – correct?
1.5" is generally code, but 2" won't hurt. The sink should probably have a trap on it even though it's just running to a dry well to keep pests and such out. I'd install a studor/cheater vent.

You should also look into some kind of filter or cleanout before the drains go into the drywell. You don't want all the hay, shavings, etc. to end up in the drywell or else you'll end up having to dig it up every 1-2 years. If you have the space for it, I've seen the piping drain into the top of the drywell, and then you can easily clean out the top periodically. Others may have suggestions for some kind of inline filter.

Good luck!
 
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Old 08-14-10, 03:08 PM
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Thank you.

Does anyone think that I need to vent this system? and if so, how would I do that?

Also, what's the best way to set up a dry well? How deep, etc...
 
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Old 08-14-10, 03:38 PM
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You are getting excellent advice on the "other" forum. I suggest that you follow that expert advice.

I also will suggest that you give up the idea of just a drywell for the very reason that someday you are going to have to clean out the drywell. Use a crock with a proper lid and a proper drain from the crock to the drywell. The crock will act as an interceptor point for any solid material that may find its way into the drainage piping.

And yes, you MUST properly vent the system.
 
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Old 08-14-10, 08:17 PM
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Ok...thank you for your help...just trying to get different opinions on different ways to tackle this project. Thanks for the advice!
 
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Old 08-15-10, 08:43 AM
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Can you post a link to the other forum where you're getting responses too? Always interested in learning!

Thx!
 
  #7  
Old 08-15-10, 01:03 PM
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Received PM from hagler001:
Thanks for your time....but anyway you could help understand what a crock is?
And how do I install this and is it immediately before the dry well....away from the barn?

Also, any advice on how to properly set up a dry well?
Questions are best asked on the open forum so that others may benefit from the answer and also to allow others to add to the answers.

The crock is merely a settling chamber so that solid material from the drain will either sink to the bottom or float on top. It can be made of any material that is more-or-less water tight. Some examples would be a plastic 55 gallon barrel with the top cut off (don't use a steel barrel as it will rust out in just a few years), a plastic garbage can, a commercially made crock or a piece of concrete pipe of a at least 24 inch diameter. The inlet piping (from the barn) comes in through the side, about 1/3 of the way down from the top, or wherever the line happens to be buried. It should not be any lower than 1/3 of the way up from the bottom to allow settling space.

Concrete pipe is a good material but you will need to pour concrete in the bottom to seal the bottom. Three or four feet deep is probably quite sufficient and you can often find a pre-cast circular lid that will fit into the bell end of the concrete pipe for a cover. You can locate the crock anywhere between the barn and the drywell but you should locate it where it won't be run over by vehicular traffic and also allows room for periodic cleaning.

The outlet from the crock would be located about 1/3 of the way down from the top (more or less) and you would have a plastic pipe enter the side of the crock. You need to use concrete topping mix or mortar to seal both the inlet and outlet pipes to the crock. You can use a carbide tipped masonry drill bit along with hammer and chisel to make the openings for the inlet and outlet piping. The outlet pipe must enter the crock far enough to allow for the placement of a tee fitting with the side opening on the outlet pipe. The tee is positioned so that the "run" (straight through passage) is vertical and the lower part will have a short piece of pipe that goes to about the half-way point (vertical) of the crock. The upper part of the tee would have a short section of pipe that will come to just a couple of inches below the lid of the crock.

The reason for the tee is that the water draining from the crock will come from the middle of the crock and not take either sinking or floating materials. The upper end will act as an air vent so that a total siphoning of the crock will not happen.

Ideally you would have the upper end of the crock slightly, or maybe as much as a foot above the finished grade (ground level) and the lid would not be air tight. If you need to have the crock completely buried be sure to either run a vent line or use large diameter pipe from the barn to the crock and then add a vent at the barn. If you are coming out of the barn with a 4 inch drain then I would suggest it transition to 6 inch to the crock and use a tee at the barn that will allow a vent pipe to run up the side of the barn a minimum of eight feet above the ground. Put a "reverse bend" (180 degree or U) fitting on the top of the vent to keep birds or other critters from dropping things in the vent.

The pipe to the drywell should be the same size as the pipe coming out of the barn (not necessarily the same size as entering the crock). The drywell can be as simple as a big hole in the ground filled with crushed rock or gravel and bigger rock is probably better than smaller. Of course the drywell needs to be in an area that will allow the water to be easily absorbed into the surrounding ground, think of a "perc test" as for a septic tank.
 
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Old 08-15-10, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorfdt View Post
Can you post a link to the other forum where you're getting responses too? Always interested in learning!

Thx!
I don't know if the DIY forum allows linking to "other" forums so I sent you a PM.
 
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Old 08-15-10, 01:38 PM
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"Also, any advice on how to properly set up a dry well?" ------ Be sure to include plenty of clean-outs, you will need them. You may want to purchase a plastic one: Drywells for Landscape Drainage, how to install, drain time information

Drainage pipe, drain tile, and fittings for a French drain installation

Be safe, Gary
 
 

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