Moving water line branch from main line to sprinkler line


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Old 12-16-10, 09:56 AM
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Post Moving water line branch from main line to sprinkler line

Hi!

A new guy here. I recently bought my new house and moved in with my family. Iíve been doing a lot of projects around the house but they were mostly concentrated on air sealing/insulation/winterizing. I have another project in my queue that I will get to before the spring and I wanted to ask the community for an opinion for it.

I have to water lines coming to my house Ė main and sprinkler lines. They billed differently and because main line water ends up in the municipal sewer itís twice as expensive and sprinkler water.

I have 3 outside faucets that for some reason are connected back to main line instead of the sprinkler. It gets expensive to fill up my pool in the spring using one of those facets since Iím charged twice for it. Also watering the lawn or doing anything outside with that water also gets charged twice even though not a drop of the water from those faucets ends up in the sewer.

So I want to correct this. On the first picture you can see two line splitting into two meters and then to separate pipes. The top meter is on sprinkler line. At the top of the main line there is branch that goes to outside faucets. You can see it on the very top of the first picture and on the second picture.

I plan on disconnecting the elbow on the faucets branch (A) and installing a Tee on the sprinkler line (B), adding a gate valve and drain valve and connecting it back to the faucets line.





Here are my two questions/concerns:

1. Why was it done like that in first place? Will I violate any codes with what I want to do? I donít really see how, if anything I would be putting sprinkler-grade water (the one that goes outside) to sprinkler line.
2. The sprinkler line section that I can cut into and installed a Tee is somewhat short. Iím afraid that if I cut into it, it will not have enough wiggle room to put a Tee fitting since I might not be able to push two part of the cut pipe apart enough. Is there a solution for this kind of a problem? All I can think of is Ė cut as needed and if it doesnít work, cut a bigger section of the pipe off and then install some flexible pipe (PEX?) that will give me enough room to connect it back together? The area is somewhat cramp and there is styrofoam right behind the pipe, so I might end up doing either compression fittings or push-in fittings like SharkBite so it would work with Pex pipe. Am I missing some simpler solution here? Something like saddle valve would be ideal, but it wonít provide enough preassure/volume for this application.

Thanks for reading this long post and I hope someone can help me out with some sound advice on this.

Stan.
 
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Old 12-16-10, 10:05 AM
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Cut a tee in where you have the letter B in your photo. To get enough room to slip the tee in either disconnect one side of the meter or cut a bigger section out and use a tee and a short length of pipe and use a copper slip coupling.

It should be fine to do this for outside faucets since the water used is not going down the sewer. Check your local codes though to be sure.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 12-16-10, 11:33 AM
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Mike,

Thanks for your response. I did some digging around and it looks like I found exactly what I wanted:

U3370 - Cash-Acme U3370 - 3/4" Sharkbite Slip Tee



Slip fittings simplify repair by doing the job that two couplings and extra pipe used to do. Only one end of the coupling has a stop, allowing the other end to slide freely over the end of a pipe. The fitting can be released with a disconnect tool and slid back onto the other end of the pipe for successful leak repair. For use with copper only.
So it fits the bill perfectly for me.

I don't have any experience soldering copper pipes (only electronics ), so this makes is even either.
 
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Old 12-16-10, 11:41 AM
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I would say dont use those.... They are garbage and leak. If no problems now I would say you will down the road. They are homeowner quick fixes. I have seen many leaking in the field and cause more damage then good. One homeowners pressure reducing valve broke in his home and his house pressure went up well over 130 psi. One of these so called shark bite fitting was the first to let go. Can we say "Water damage"!!!!!!!

Its up to you but just remember I told you so..

Pipe it and find someone to solder for you.



Mike NJ
 
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Old 12-16-10, 11:49 AM
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Mike, I will keep that in mind. I'm going to pipe it, I would solder it myself. With some practice on scrap pipes first

It seems that sharkbite couplings are certified for in-ground, no access panel use which should imply high degree or reliability. They rated to 200 psi.

I used a similar coupling with plastic tubes to supply water for my HVAC humidifier and it worked very good for me.

One thing that worries me though is that the pipes are located in utility closet right next to electric panels. So any leaks a little bit scary...
 
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Old 12-16-10, 12:16 PM
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looks like a lot of folks here love the shark bite fittings:

http://forum.doityourself.com/plumbi...-fittings.html
 
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Old 12-16-10, 12:35 PM
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I read your link. Did you read the link?

All Negative comments. Mabye your eyes are different.

Yes 1/4 plastic sharkbites for ice maker/ filters have been used in plumbing for a while but are quite different.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 12-16-10, 12:52 PM
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yes i did read that link. 43 replied in that thread. 20 positive, 9 negative and 13 neutral/irrelevant. plastic fittings in ice maker mentioned in the thread are not shark bites.

majority of negative replies are "i'm old fashioned and don't trust these things". only few negative replies come from someone who tried them.

i'm not preaching to these shark bite fittings but i'm trying to be open/objective so with all due respect, i fail to see how it's "All Negative comments."

i might end up sweating the pipes, but i will consider these as well.
 
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Old 12-16-10, 01:03 PM
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There are plenty of people that use them when required and are perfectly satisfied. Some of the comments over in that link are from over 2 yrs ago when these were pretty much starting to be used/available. Many I'm sure were due to improper installation or piping that was in bad condition.

I'm sure there were people that hated galvanized when it started to replace lead, those that hated soldered copper when it became popular, those that despised PEX (and similar), those that still favor cast iron over PVC/ABS, the list could go on and on.

All fittings, compression, crimp, threaded, glued, etc etc have a place.

Personally I favor a solid joint (glue, solder) whenever possible. It doesn't take much to learn how to do it correctly.
 
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Old 12-17-10, 07:13 AM
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You may want to confirm with your local water authority that outside faucets can be run off the sprinkler line. Obviously the water is the same, but there are likely rules about what can and can't be run off that line since you're getting a discounted price.

I wouldn't want to find out 5 years down the road that it's forbidden and have to pay whatever calculated 'fees' they come up with because of it.

Other than that, I think you have a good plan. This would be a good time to make sure you have backflow preventors on each of your outside faucets too!
 
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Old 12-17-10, 08:52 AM
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so much for planning!

i contacted the water division and they are ok with this kind of a work. however it requires a permit since it's inside of the house. and the permit can only be taken out by a licensed plumber. so i'm out of luck here for DIY! i'm afraid the work would run me couple of hundreds if i use outside contractor. is that in a bulk park?

i have a sprinkler pipe outside where it has back flow preventer and test cocks. so alternatively i could try to make a hook-up there, but it's less elegant solution.
 
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Old 12-17-10, 09:09 AM
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That does not sound right that a permit can only be taken out buy a licence plumber. I put a dormer bathroom on my home and took building,electrical,plumbing permits. I put myself as the contractor. Permits were about $100 for all.

I know states are different but you should be able to do the work yourself. If they only allow license contractors to take out permits then I would think the state would be over run with illegal installations, repairs, renovations that are not getting inspected.

My 2 cents

Mike NJ
 
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Old 12-17-10, 09:13 AM
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Massachusetts is notorious to be over regulated.

Here are the replies from the head of the water division:

If you have a plumber put the outside spigots on the water line that
going to the lawn sprinkler line after the water sprinkler water meter
it would be OK. The plumber would have to take out a permit and the
Water Division would have to
Check it with a work order.
Any work on the water pipes inside the house by Mass plumbing Reg. has
to be done with a permit. That permit can only be taken out by a
plumber.
Now I have to figure out how much it would cost and how long it would take me to recoup the cost and it's worth it So much for nice winter project for myself. Well, I have plenty of others.
 
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Old 12-17-10, 09:22 AM
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Did you tell them who you are???? I always use "It was like that when I bought the house". What they dont know wont hurt them.....I actually did my dormer without a permit, but a neighbor dimed me out. So I went through the whole permit process so they could raise my taxes accordingly. LOL..


Mike
 
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Old 12-17-10, 09:27 AM
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lawrosa...that's very common in large cities. NYC and Chicago(?) come to mind. I'm sure there are other areas as well.
 
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Old 12-17-10, 09:29 AM
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well they have my name from my email address, so i guess i did tell them who i was
 
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Old 12-17-10, 10:44 AM
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since moving spigot line from main line to sprinkler line is permitted, what is the worst that could happen i do the work without a permit? can i be forced to move it back, will i be assessed a fine? all of the above?

i don't really want to break the rules, but if the fine is about the same as i would pay someone to do the work and obtain the permit, it might be worth the risk
 
 

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