Water and gas lines to BBQ

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Old 02-02-11, 10:17 PM
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Water and gas lines to BBQ

So twofold question.
Where to get that flexible polyline and how to properly run it through the backyard (inground) ?
What can/should I use for the water line. I most likely will not use the water for drinking, but who knows. To be safe, if not too price prohibitive, what type of piping should I use?
Thanks!
 
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Old 02-03-11, 03:30 AM
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Is your BBQ propane or natural gas? If natural gas, have the gas company run your lines for liability purposes. If propane, use 20 lb tanks at the location. Running gas lines underground is a little less DIY friendly. As far as water, if you don't plan on drinking it, what will be it's source? You can run it (cold) via PVC, buried below frost line. BUT, you need to keep in mind the four letter word....winter. OK 6. Plan on a drain procedure or in ground farm type yard hydrant that is freeze proof.
 
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Old 02-03-11, 11:42 AM
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thanks

Having the gas company running the line could be cost prohibitive, i had an HAV company run a gas line outside of my house and I'd think I could do it much better
As far freezing, haven's seen freezing temps for the last 10 years since moved to CA But I am guessing having something that would help draining the water from the pipes would help anyway.
Thanbk yoou so much for oyur help!
 
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Old 02-03-11, 01:23 PM
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You could tap off the gas meter and run soft cooper. You need to flare the end. How far from meter to grill will determain pipe size.

Water run pvc or soft cooper.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-03-11, 06:51 PM
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Thanks Mike,
I have about 80 ft to go, so I was guessing 1" or 1.25" should do it. But was not aware of the using the soft flex copper. My soil type is constantly shifting, not by much but still, so I am not sure if soft copper can handle it. I also was kind of blindsided by the price difference between the "green pipe" - insulated black pipe and the polyflex - close to 6 times more for the green. They said it requires a special tool/device to install it and cost two grand to have it, hence the price gouge
 
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Old 02-03-11, 07:24 PM
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I'll abstain from the underground gas line discussion... but for underground water I'd highly recommend PEX. Easy to connect with SharkBite connectors on either end and is of course rated for underground use. A 100' roll will install in no time (except for the digging of course).
 
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Old 02-03-11, 07:46 PM
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Did not know that far. 80 ft? How many BTU is the BBQ?? Should be a plate with total of all burners on the BBQ somwhere. Let me know.

Yes pex is good for the water, or soft copper roll.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-03-11, 08:31 PM
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thanks again

BBQ is still work in progress i.e I can steel choose, but am guessing between 45 & 60K btu, BUT heh... i am planing on two rectangular firepits with separate 12" burners fed from the "same" source.
 
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Old 02-03-11, 09:15 PM
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What are you tapping off of?? You need to go from the meter you know and cant tap off the house line. So 60K BBQ and two burners...lets say 100,000 BTU???

Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-03-11, 09:46 PM
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yea, i am unfortunately have to, otherwise volume drop is not gona let me do what I want. So I am planning on tapping directly to the meter, then splitting between my "main line" and the shut off for the backyard. I doubt it's gonab 100,000 btu either. I will be using 3 of those 12" burners on each firepit, so total of 6 burners on top of my 60,000 bbq. If I could find the smaller burners like 8 o 9 inch, I would use those. I really don't need 12", but building custom burners for 6' pit is cost prohibitive. imo
If you know the better & cheaper source I am all for it.
Thanks
 
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Old 02-04-11, 04:43 AM
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With that distance, wouldn't it be better to run the grills and burners off propane? No digging, no pipe cost, just seems more convenient.
 
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Old 02-04-11, 06:01 AM
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Being in SoCal I also like the idea of having an alternate, back-up source of fuel in case something happens to your natural gas supply. If an earthquake or some other disaster knocks out electricity and causes the natural gas pipelines to be shut down you can still cook on your grill. Two normal 20lb propane tanks sound like an easy solution. Run the burners off one tank and keep an extra filled and ready to go so you are never caught without gas. Propane has about 22'000 btu per pound so one 20lb tank would provide about seven hours continuously running all the burners on high.

If you do decide to bury a line, the line from my propane tank to the house is soft copper run inside a continuous length of black high density polyethylene plastic water pipe. The pipe protects the gas line and provides a conduit to pull a new line if needed.
 
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Old 02-05-11, 06:25 PM
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thanks

I am not sure if 20lbs will be enough to run both my grill and the firepits. I assume I most likely be using them all together. Even if grill goes first, i still won't have enough gas for the firepits later.
I am all for the backup, but at least firepits would have to go off the nat gas line, I think. Great point with the black pipe. I will use it regardless of what I end up using as a line.
 
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Old 02-17-11, 06:15 AM
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Just a little info, most of those 12" fire pit rings can consume up to 90k BTU and the grill 60k BTU. Three burner rings plus the grill is 330k BTU, that's a LOT of gas !!!! Most residential meters here are only 270k BTU and you have to take into consideration what other gas appliances you have in your home as well. If you have a gas furnace, cook stove, water heater and gas dryer, you will need 500k BTU to service your home properly. Many areas have high pressure capability, but that requires regulators at each appliance.

If you do not have the proper amount of fuel available, your furnace may malfunction and fill your home with carbon monoxide and kill your family. Spend the extra money to have a professional design your system.
 
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Old 02-17-11, 06:54 PM
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If you tap off the meter, you should have the line properly sized by btu demand and length of run and you may need a larger meter as mentioned. Your utility provider probably wont upsize your meter without a permit.DO NOT RUN NATURAL GAS THROUGH SOFT COPPER. There are a couple of approved flexible coated metal pipes available, like Trac Pipe.Add up your btu's and length of run and I can give you the proper sizing.
 
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Old 02-17-11, 07:30 PM
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Just wondering why he cant use copper???? You wrote that in bold like its wrong.

The National Fuel Gas Code (NFPA 54/ANSI Z223.1)

http://www.copper.org/publications/p...guide_2003.pdf

I have used copper for 20 plus yrs. Mostly flare. Most plumbers cant flare anything let alone pour lead... Kids today..uggg.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-17-11, 08:32 PM
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Hi Mike...
Section 1212 of the Uniform Plumbing Code.

All pipe used in any gas piping shall be wrought iron or steel or yellow brass containing not more than 75% copper.
Copper is approved if internally tinned or equivalently treated.
Approved PVC and PE piping may be used in exterior buried systems.
Had to dig out my UPC from under my caulking irons.



Probably should introduce myself here. I have 36 years of service and repair plumbing and residential and light commercial construction experience. I live in N. Ca. try to concentrate on water heating and backflow devices these days. I'd like to think I can pass on some experience.

Good to meet you
Steve
 

Last edited by ssk1100; 02-17-11 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 02-17-11, 09:20 PM
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Hi Steve,

On the east coast from my experience we use the NFPA and not the Uniform Plumbing Code.

Gas???... Plumbing??? Theres a difference I would assume and this is a big debate. I would normally say your from California but see your from Canada. Different rules I am sure. Possibly your ground freezes deeper....


Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-18-11, 07:32 AM
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Mike....

I am in N. California.
The problem is that gas degrades copper tubing from the inside. Causes flaking that causes clogging and restricted flow problems, at the very least. Leaking, at the very worst. With so many alternatives, dont give your homeowners ins. company a very legitimate reason to deny a claim (or cancel your policy) if there is a claim related to a leaking copper gas line.

Steve
 
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Old 02-18-11, 07:38 AM
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Natural gas does not corrode anything, including copper. Corrosion is a chemical reaction between metal and oxygen. It is the oxygen in the normal air that is mixed in with the gas that would cause any corrosion.

Do a search but like I said its a misconception.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-18-11, 06:46 PM
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no i didn't

try to bring up so much of a controversy

I am sure not trying to kill anyone especially my family. If I had enough money to hire a professional I would have. Not in my budget though, that's why I am here.
ssk1100 - thanks a lot for the offer. I am shortening my run to one 40ft run and maybe another 25-30 ft off of that to the firepit. My approximate BTUs - let's ay I will do 3 12" burners would come to max 270k btu + 60k for the bbq. I also found these stoves
Camp Chef Expedition 3X Triple Burner Stove : OutdoorCooking.com

at Costco they have three burners with total of 90k btu, if I add 6 of them I am still 2/3 of the 270 I'd have with 12" burners. Unfortunately I was unable to find a 1 1/4" polyline, only 1" so that limits how much i can run of it. If you know a supplier that carries 1 1/4 - please advise.

It would be very unlikely I'll run the bbq, firepit, waterheater and the stove and furnace at the same time, but better be safe than
So what do you think? Can I get away with using those smaller burners? They say never assume, but if they use them in the stove why not in the firepit
 
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Old 02-18-11, 10:02 PM
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So you have a maximum developed run of 70 ft. CArrying maximum 330K btu's. Would require a1 1/4" line to the branch.
A 1/2" line will carry 96K the last 30 ft.
Max load on a 1" line @70' is 239K
Max load on a 3/4 line @ 70' is 127K
Have you tried a large plumbing supplier for 1 1/4 pe? Ive seen spools of that stuff up to 2".
Cal Steam and Pace supply are my go to guys around here. Dont know if you have them down there.
Hope the info helps you mix and match burners and pit for what works best for you.
 
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Old 02-18-11, 10:12 PM
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Thank you SO MUCH!

I will look for the rite supplier (or supplier of the rite pipe) and I just though of who to ask for it.
Just discovered that my supply (before the meter ) pipe is severely rusted where it was burred under ground. I already scheduled a visit from the gas company, maybe I can talk them into replacing the meeter with a larger throughput capacity as well.
Wish me luck and thanks again.
 
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Old 02-18-11, 10:40 PM
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Sounds like you are on the rite track.
 
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