NYC sewer piping?


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Old 03-01-11, 11:37 PM
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NYC sewer piping?

Hello all,

Im really new to this site, please bear with me with my questions.

I recently purchased a home in Queens, New York. I didnt see this when purchasing the house, but now Im arriving at a sewer problem. Im actually renovating the basement/half basement, now arriving at a well/sinkhole in the ground thats occasionally filled with water. i didnt think of it, until I began sucking water out, and realizing its filling up constantly from the sewer system.

long story short, i got a plumber, who snaked the system and put a video camera down (cost me 500$ total). water ran great, however he arrived at a couple of problems. the joints between the clay pipes are coming apart at approximately 3 or 4 locations from the house to the street, from tree roots/other roots.

He offered two solution options.
1. a carbon fiber seamless piping which will go through the original piping and ballooned to fit the original piping at 3/8", thereby having a new piping system with no joints etc. cost: $9,800. guaranteed for 15 yrs, 1 day job.

2. extravasation. entire digging up the street couple feet into the earth, and replacing the old pipes with new pipes. cementing and complete recovery included. said couple of things regarding the integrity of the foundation after the digging becoming diminished. cost: $14,000. guaranteed for 10 yrs. 3-4 day job.

now i know something needs to be done, and i would like to make a choice. the house was built in the 1940s, so its been quite the time for deteriation of the pipes. before I put more money into the basement for renovation just to have it ruined, I would like to know what you think on my problem. I was pretty much sold for the carbon fiber seamless piping, which didnt require any digging [mayb a bit he said, just at the sinkhole], but I couldnt find any information on that material and its integrity.

please, if anyone can offer some advice I'd really appreciate it. finances are a bit tight now after the purchase, but its what needs to be spent and fix this property.

Thanks for your help.

Danny
 
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Old 03-02-11, 06:53 AM
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Are you sure it's sewer water? Sewer water is when you run the sink or flush the toilet. Is that when you see the water flow?

How is the balloon idea going to stop roots?
 
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Old 03-02-11, 08:53 AM
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yup positive its sewer water. because any water flushing or toilet flushing leads the water to the same pipe. there were two sewer caps that were on top of the pipe that did not hold water in the pipe, allowing the water to enter a 3 foot sinkhole in the basement [not onto the floor thankfully]. when the guy snaked the hole he also said it was sewer... and ive seen nasty things come outta there.

the balloon isnt the material that will be used to stop the roots. the ballooning is the method for expanding the carbon fiber glass piping that will be inserted into the existing sewer pipe and "ballooned" [probably not the right word for the description though], to fit the original size of the sewer pipe. im assuming this carbon fiber glass material is strong enough to withstand the roots attempt to enter it.

thanks for your thoughts!
 
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Old 03-02-11, 01:47 PM
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I should have been more clear. My point was that the balloon solution won't last if roots are involved. I don't think it's strong enough.

Those caps need to be replaced. No sewer water should leave that pipe under any circumstances.
 
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Old 03-02-11, 02:23 PM
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The sewer

Having lived in Queens for 40 years I've had some expierence with the NYC sewr system, it's my opinion that the sewer pipe from the house to the street is cast iron. Most of the problem is when they poured the lead in the joints, they kinda skimped on the lead and/or did not calk the lead tight enough. I know because I broke a couple apart for an alteration. It the plumber cleaned out the roots. and you get good flow, you can pour in some root destroyer [copper sulphate] about twice a year. As for the liner, shop around for a price. Actually the liner will stop the roots because it stops the moisture then the roots search for water, and no water no roots. Roots will get on a crack and sort of expand, but they can't bore a hole. That small hole in your basement is an access for your house trap. As long as your sewer line is running, and the two 4'' plugs [threaded covers] are in place and are fairly tight you should'nt have any trouble for the short haul, and mabey the long haul. Actually you would have a lot more trouble if your water service broke outside your house, that would have to be fixed like right away. Sorry this rambled.
Sid
 
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Old 03-02-11, 05:29 PM
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Are you saying replace the caps & see what happens? I would agree with that.
 
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Old 03-02-11, 06:07 PM
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thanks for the input!

with the carbon fiber piping there shouldnt be any joints that will be needed, as it is one whole seamless piping. my issue is finances as well, trying to pay 9800$ for this service is mayb 2 months away. i just hope the joints between the clay pipes now will not give way. if they do, im screwed. but also the plumber mentioned if the joints shifted too much, then a carbon fiberglass piping will not do because of the position of the pipes. a whole digging process will be necessary.

should i be expecting about 9800$ for this service? or does it seem like a lot to you guys? im trying to avoid the whole digging up foundation method... im glad the roots are not able to bore holes, since this carbon fiberglass material should be a while seamless piece...
 
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Old 03-02-11, 09:10 PM
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i have already replaced the caps. no help.. water gushes out. right now its clear, after the snake. im worried about future clogs and problems...
 
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Old 03-03-11, 12:02 AM
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at least the house trap allows water to collect there. without the water coming out the sewer cap into the house trap, i think the water wouldve been on the floor from coming up the toilet or sink!
 
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Old 03-03-11, 07:11 AM
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Cut out the section where the caps are & install a PVC trap. I certainly wouldn't pay that much money for that carbon balloon.
 
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Old 03-03-11, 08:09 AM
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what about the other failing joints down the pipe towards the street? i feel like that problem will rise in the future. we saw this on the video cam the plumber put down, and you can actually see a bit of the flat end of each pipe as if the piping were pointing straight at you.
 
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Old 03-03-11, 10:01 AM
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First of all, I would get at least two more estimates. Tell whoever you contact that it's already been snaked and you just want a price for a total pipe replacement or if they want to video the line to see if they would do a liner they can give you a price on that. You may have to call several places for somebody to give you a free estimate and maybe you won't find that in NYC, but you won't know till you try. Maybe somebody needs the work.

I would be very leary of the plumber you had in who is already covering his a$$ by saying their might be issues with the foundation wall if they go the whole pipe replacement. If done correctly and backfilled correctly, there should be no issues with the foundation by just removing and replacing the pipe.

My vote is for the full pipe replacement (but it's not coming out of my wallet) because you have said the edges of the clay pipe are visible which indicates thay have shifted which in my opinion means the liner option wouldn't end up being a straight shot to the sewer, but go up and down which may cause problems in the future.

Curious that the warranty for a full pipe replacement is 10 years but the liner is 15 years. Wonder if the manufacturer of this liner replacement is throwing the plumber some consideration for pushing this method. The plumber would much rather make $9800 in one day than $3500 a day over a 4 day span. Besides, the pipe liner process would be a much cleaner and warmer way to go at this time of year.

Good luck.
 
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Old 03-03-11, 02:40 PM
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^ thanks for all th info an input there. this really helps. i will get a few more estimates to see what is the option. you raised a very good point tho, even with the liner what if the pipe shifts again, thats just problem down the line.

now with the joints deminishing currently, if i waited say 2 months to do this job, would that be a problem? or should i be attending to it say yesterday? i need to save up the money for the repair...

i will ask for more estimates, but as far as you guys have experienced, does $14,000 sound like the price for replacing the sewer line outside?
 
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Old 03-03-11, 02:41 PM
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Get an estimate from Sokol. I haven't seen him in years but he always did a good job at a fair price.

Big Apple Plumbing Corp
365 Van Brunt Street
Brooklyn, NY 11231-1244

Phone: (718) 522-0040
 
 

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