Commercial sink, had new shut off installed~no key and none to be found


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Old 06-04-11, 10:49 AM
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Commercial sink, had new shut off installed~no key and none to be found


Greetings all from Oregon, we kiss where the sun don't shine.
Yesterday had a plumbing outfit take care of some things in my office, one of which was to replace a faucet sut off in the untility sink that I've caught patrons trying to take a bath in It only measures 20x20x30!!
Well they installed a pair of new shut off valves;



As you can see the shut off takes a security key that the plumbers did not have.
In this consumer desert I live in, I've tried hardware and plumbing stores and no one has seen a shut off configured like this. Does anyone know of a resourse for the key to this bugger?
Thanks and a lift of the lynch lid for your response.

a frustrated Gus
 
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Old 06-04-11, 12:06 PM
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What you appear to have is a standard shut off with the handle removed.
Are there not threads in the center of the valve stem?

Could they have had these valves laying around the shop?
 
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Old 06-04-11, 12:31 PM
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This shut off takes a security key (rolling eyes) that has 20 splines and a central slotted #8? for a screwdriver-like key
 
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Old 06-04-11, 01:45 PM
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Right.
That is pretty much what a standard shut off looks like without the handle.

Think about it.
How much sense does it make to have a high security shut off that will accept a standard blade screwdriver?

I have done contract work in prisons and what you have would not be something you would see in places like that.
In commercial installations it is standard to have a shut off with a recessed stem that takes a flat blade screwdriver.

Which leads us to what you have.
Again, you appear to have a shut off with the handle removed.
It is possible it was purchased as a secure valve with the intention of using a flat blade screwdriver as is standard in commercial installations and a option of having a handle.
Again, are there threads in the center of the stem?
 
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Old 06-04-11, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GregH View Post
Right.
That is pretty much what a standard shut off looks like without the handle.

Think about it.
How much sense does it make to have a high security shut off that will accept a standard blade screwdriver?
~~~Indeed I can thread a #8 flat bladed screwdriver into the, but over the long haul, this will end up wearing out the contact point just as the old one did. Not trying to be a smart alec here, but we have to open/close this shut off 3 times per week. This contact nipple has what appears to be 20 splines and a recess for the screwdriver-esque in its center. It seems apparent that this takes a specific key so's not to wear out or damage the contact.
I have done contract work in prisons and what you have would not be something you would see in places like that.
In commercial installations it is standard to have a shut off with a recessed stem that takes a flat blade screwdriver.
~~~Indeed I asked the plumber to put in standard commecial shutoffs, but wouldn't you know....this was all he had on his truck.
Which leads us to what you have.
Again, you appear to have a shut off with the handle removed.
It is possible it was purchased as a secure valve with the intention of using a flat blade screwdriver as is standard in commercial installations and a option of having a handle.
Again, are there threads in the center of the stem?
~~~No threads in the center of the stem
 
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Old 06-04-11, 04:12 PM
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Not to bust your chops, but the security valves I use have a square stem. Then you use a key.

Those do look like a normal valve with the handle removed, although it may be something I never seen.

Have you tried to fit a handle from another valve? That would be the first thing I would of tried.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 06-05-11, 08:41 AM
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I work in a hospital and there are two types of "security" stems we use and have available.
The ones used indoors sometimes have a screw cap when removed expose a recessed slot for a flat blade screwdriver and the outdoor hose bibs have a recessed square stem, some behind a locked cover with a square stem as Mike described.

It is possible that what you have is sold as an economy security valve which looks like a residential stop valve without a handle.
It is unlikely that there would be a tool to open and close the valve as those splines are very soft, as evidenced if you have ever tried to tightened a faucet with a loose screw!

My best guess is that what you have is meant to be operated with a screwdriver.
Even if you were to find a handle that fits those valves, without a screw tightly mating the splines you will strip the splines as fast as a screwdriver would damage the slot.

I wonder how you would control the opening and closing of the valve.
Would you turn off the supply at night or for each qualified patron?
The reason I ask is that even commercial duty indoor valves are not meant for repeated use if they have a flat blade slot......a square stem would likely last if available.
It might make more sense to have a ball valve controlling the supply located in a concealed spot or, a nicer touch would be solenoid valves controlled by a switch or timer which I also have seen done.

One more thing..........What is a "lift of the lynch lid"?
If we are going to get one I hope it's a good thing!
 
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Old 06-06-11, 10:15 AM
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My chops ain't busted yet. I too, when I saw what those valves looked like I asked for standard 1/4" square drive. They responded that they didn't have those, despite me seeing them at Searing Plumbing later that day
Heretofore I used a 14" long (to reach under the sink) 1/4" socket extension with a square drive conventional handle on the male end. Worked like a charm but eventually with the oxidized plumbing the square nipple broke off. So I thought I'd just get another like it when I got my other plumbing stuff fixed in this office. I'm thinking of callling Ace Plumbers back and do a retro fit with conventional square drive valves.
It's not that I'm restricting all the sinks in this restroom, just the utility sink for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
 
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Old 06-08-11, 10:44 AM
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Thanks for your postings Greg, but I think you're referring to one of these;

...from the outside hose spigot on the side of our building.

I think these appear to be thicker and fewer than the shut off valves and no provision for a screw;


... and I did try the handle and it does not mate up.
 
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Old 06-08-11, 10:57 AM
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IMHO if they installed it and can't provide a key they need to replace it on their dime with one they can provide a key to. No key, no pay.
 
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Old 06-09-11, 05:34 PM
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I quite agree, was on the phone with the owner today and he says he found one, we'll see. If not I'm just going to ask for a retro fit
 
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Old 06-09-11, 08:05 PM
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Please post a pic. I cant wait to see what this key looks like.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 06-14-11, 02:26 PM
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I sent this photo to Grainger and they've never seen one like this either, must be made in lower slovobia.
 
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Old 06-21-11, 08:34 AM
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There may be a key over in Albany for this odd shut off, but I got a line on 1/4" square drive shut offs, hopefully will be arriving today at Searing. I noted it seems Grainger has the square dirves too.
 
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Old 06-25-11, 10:46 AM
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Finally, went to a plumbing shop and got the 1/4" square drive shutoffs. Same shop Ace plumbing said they went to.
 
 

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