Toilet Bend Question

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Old 12-28-11, 04:43 PM
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Toilet Bend Question

I'm replacing my cast iron stack with PVC and have a question about the toilet drain/bend.

When the house was built, the cast iron stack came up from the basement, cut diagonally across a joist, picked up the 2nd floor toilet, then continued vertically to the roof.

Using the PVC pipe and fittings, the height of the new flange will sit a half inch or more above the finished floor. I have tried every combination of 4" and 3", all degrees, etc., and can't find anything that will leave me flush.

I could lower everything by cutting further into the joist, but as it is, when they built everything they cut about 6" out of the 10" board.

The closest I can get to flush is with a 90 degree elbow. I believe its a vent elbow. (no sweep, female fittings on both ends, no visible hubs). But I'd have to cut off about a 5/8" from one end.

Is that acceptable?

Thanks.
 
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Old 12-28-11, 05:26 PM
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The tightest you can get, and its pretty darn tight fit, Is a street ell and glue the flange right to the st side of the ell.

I cannot even piture you needing that, but I cant visualize what you are explaining really. Only that you need the flange to fit flush using the existing holes in the joists.

Street Ell



Glue flange over st side of ell.




Because I cant imagine how they would get that tight with a lead bend.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 12-28-11, 07:53 PM
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On the lead bend I removed, the distance between the top of the flange and the top of the horizontal pipe was really small, maybe a little over an inch. So the bend on the original was really tight.

But I can't find a PVC bend that tight, and the new 4" PVC tee fitting is larger than the original cast iron. If I didn't have to diagonal across the joist, I could lower the horizontal portion of the stack, and wouldn't need quite so tight a bend to get flush with the floor.

I'll post pictures tomorrow, but in the meantime, is cutting the elbow I mentioned in the previous post a viable option?
 
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Old 12-28-11, 08:26 PM
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Yes please post pics.

PVC and cast of the same size are actuall different size. You need to use a mission no hub coupling to connect them.

Did you see my st ell pic below?

Mike NJ
 
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Old 12-28-11, 09:47 PM
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I did see your st ell pic, and incredibly, that is the one fitting I did not buy. I think it must have been out of stock, because I grabbed one of absolutely everything. In any case, I'll pick one up tomorrow.

Pics are below. If you can think of anything, would really appreciate your advice.





As you can see, I'm tying the toilet drain into a tee fitting located between the vertical section going to the next bathroom above, and the horizontal section that cuts across the joist before elbowing down to the basement.
 
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Old 12-28-11, 09:58 PM
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OK where is the vertical on the tee going?

Where is the toilet going to be?

4" pvc?


yes street ell and If you need lower then that you can hack an inch or so off the street side of the fitting.

But I am still trying to figure what you have there.


Mike NJ
 
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Old 12-28-11, 10:04 PM
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The vertical on the tee is going straight up between the two studs, and the toilet will be between the two joists, about 12.5" from the tee hub. I'll use a 22.5 degree fitting to align it.

I should clarify: the top picture includes the tee fitting, but for the bottom picture I removed it to make the "notched" joist more visible.

I was planning on using all 4".
 
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Old 12-28-11, 11:07 PM
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Does anything dump into that tee from above? Or it just picks up that toilet?

What about the other fixtures?

Just one bath?

Why 4"? Are you replacing all plumbing from basement up?

Probably 3" is good enough but I really need to know more to help and give you accurate info.

Stuff like that tee may need to be a Y instead. And that stack alone will be a vent for that toilet but what about other fixtures? And whats below that bath?

You may need to slow down a bit here and take a breather.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 12-29-11, 07:44 AM
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I don't mind slowing down. Everything so far is a dry fight, I haven't glued a thing, and I'm in no rush.

I am replacing everything from basement up. From above (3rd floor), a toilet, a vanity, a bathtub and a small kitchen will dump into that tee. On the 2nd floor will be this toilet, a bathtub and a vanity. Nothing else dumps into this pipe below this tee. The first floor has a stack of its own.

I was under the impression that two toilets required 4". No?
 
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Old 12-29-11, 08:01 AM
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I was under the impression that two toilets required 4". No?

No they dont ned 4". The most important thing is venting the whole thing properly now that you state there is a bath above this bath group.

Probably the original cast was not vented properly to begin with.


Here is how I did my addition. I had to tie the 2nd floor bath in below any vents from the first floor that were tied into the stack.

If I simply tied the first floor vent up above the second floor flood plain I would be good also.

[IMG][/IMG]


Mike NJ
 
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Old 12-31-11, 12:01 PM
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I follow you. I guess I was approaching this with the idea that my toilet would have a wet vent, because I don't think there's enough room to pipe it with its own vent.

And I was planning on using 4", because I thought I had to. So the layout below is essentially what I was planning, but in your opinion I could use 3"? I think if I used 3" I would have no problem getting the toilet bend to the height that i need.

I would want to be at 4" between the roof and the highest vent tie in point, correct?


http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/...CP/DWVPLAN.jpg
 
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Old 01-01-12, 12:19 PM
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lawrosa:

I hate to bug you but can you tell me exactly how you put the pictures on your post that shows the street ell and closet flange. I been away from this site for a while and I can't remember how its done. The other sites are slightly different.

I would appreciate it
 
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Old 01-01-12, 02:10 PM
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Shacko when you find a image online right click on the pic and look in properties. Then copy the URL for that pic and paste into the insert image icon.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 01-01-12, 03:27 PM
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Hi Mike

Were you able to view the image/link I inserted?
 
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Old 01-01-12, 04:23 PM
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Yes I am going to redraw for you. Possibly it will help.

Ill be back...


OK there are variations you can do if you like since you may already have material.

Like run all 4" stack..etc.

Also that tee you have in the pic branching off for the toilet to the stack needs to be a y with a 45 on the Y end. Needs to be a sweep from vertical to horizontal.

Let me know what you think. Sorry for the fast drawing.

[IMG][/IMG]
Mike NJ
 

Last edited by lawrosa; 01-01-12 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 01-01-12, 05:29 PM
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No need to apologize for the fast drawing. Looks good, and I appreciate it.

I think 3" for the stack is my best option, to avoid any more headaches getting the bend flush.

As for the fitting to take me from horizontal to vertical, you're suggesting this:



Instead of this:




How about this:

 
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Old 01-01-12, 07:44 PM
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Only the first one will work but thats really used for under ground sewer on a horizontal to make a turn. Its very large.

They sell like this.




Instead of the long sweep fitting that you show, or buying what I show, you can make your own with a Y. It takes up less space also. Plumbing code permits its use. Its a slightly better sweep IMO then the above.

One of these. 3"Y




Then stick a st. 45 on the Y end.




Normally if you need to sweep in a home on the horizontal I also use a st. 45 and a regular 45. to make a kind of long 90.


And no toilet on the third floor?

I saw how you had a connection of two inch before the stack went up from the second floor toilet, but the proper way to vent and dump the lav. and shower is how I show.

Right after the toilet bend add a 3x3x2 Y. Thats how you pipe all bathroom groups and were you dump the vav. Then the tub or shower always dumps in the lav arm. The vent going from the lav vents all fixtures and protects from siphoning.





Mike NJ
 
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Old 01-02-12, 11:29 AM
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I think I'm going to have to go with 3". Just a couple of final clarifyers:

1. The Y and 45 will work perfectly, but I don't think I'll have room for the reducing Y between the stack and toilet if I use 4". I THINK a 3" reducing Y will fit.

2. If I decided to add a toilet to the 3rd floor, I would still be OK with 3" stack, correct?

3. Just out of curiosity, what is most often used in average homes these days? 3" or 4"?

Can't thank you enough for the help.
 
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Old 01-02-12, 12:09 PM
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#2 Yes your OK
#3 3"


Your welcome.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 01-02-12, 12:49 PM
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Its either the boose or the age thats causing me these problems, but I wont give up the boose

Thanks for the help, it works.
 

Last edited by shacko; 01-02-12 at 12:52 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 01-02-12, 09:28 PM
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Hey Mike. What do you think? Success?

Photobucket

Photobucket

Mike
 
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Old 01-03-12, 07:28 AM
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Looks great good job.

Take pics as you go along so we can follow your progress.

What are the two pipes to the right?

Mike NJ
 
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Old 01-03-12, 11:45 AM
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WarnLot:

I was looking at the pictures of your proposed hook-up, if nobody mentioned your closet flange has to be installed flush with the finish floor, should be installed after tile, if you are using it?
 
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Old 01-03-12, 04:43 PM
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Will do. I owe ya for the help.

The pipes to the right are old radiator pipes that are capped just above the picture I took. They tie into the supply and return pipes that feed the radiator you can see on the side of the picture. I would like to have taken them out, but don't want to drain the system in a Minnesota January, and have to deal with old galvinized piping. So I guess I'll wall them up, and leave them alone. The guys in the heating forum seemed to think that was just fine.

Shacko - Thanks, but its just a dry fit. I was making sure my flange would be flush in the future.
 
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