Help with "simple" push-fit shutoff valve


  #1  
Old 02-12-12, 05:51 PM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 173
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Help with "simple" push-fit shutoff valve

I'm doing some toilet work, so I'm installing a shutoff valve on the toilet water supply, because the idiot who did the plumbing in this place 60 years ago never put one in.

Looking for the easy way out, I was handed a "Quick Lock Quarter Turn Angle Valve Push Fit Application". The specs say 5/8" O.D. Inlet (1/2" NOM), 3/8" Outlet. I'm putting it on a 1/2" copper pipe stubout.

I cannot get it to stay on, no matter what I do, and now the big box store is closed for the night, meaning I have no water, since I turned it off before I cut the pipe. HOW THE HECK DOES THIS SIMPLE THING WORK??

When will I EVER listen that things are not as easy as they seem, and I should NEVER start a project on a Sunday? HELP!
 
  #2  
Old 02-12-12, 06:05 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 36,607
Upvotes: 0
Received 9 Upvotes on 8 Posts
Make sure the white "collar" is pulled all the way out. You are using hard copper and not soft, I presume. Pushing the fitting firmly on the copper should lock it in place. I am not aware of a problem unless you got a bummer of a piece. It acts like a sharkbite fitting. Pulling on the collar will release it, so don't pull back using the collar. Push it on and allow it to seat. Let us know what's up.
 
  #3  
Old 02-12-12, 06:09 PM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 173
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I think I figured it out. I just Googled "NOM".

Let me clarify that the copper pipe I have is 1/2" wide TOTAL. Doesn't the (1/2" NOM) on the shutoff valve mean that this connector is too BIG for what I'm using? That's the only thing I can think of. After I push it on, there is way too much wiggling.
 
  #4  
Old 02-12-12, 06:10 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,990
Received 84 Upvotes on 76 Posts
How far are yopu able to push it on?

It should insert and lock in like a shark bite fitting I believe.

Is this a keeney?

Mike NJ
 
  #5  
Old 02-12-12, 06:32 PM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 173
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Yes, this is a Keeney. It feels like the pipe goes all the way in, but let me make my point again in very non-technical terminology (please forgive me if I'm being rude): The collar on the valve has an opening of 5/8". The copper pipe is 1/2" wide. This means there is a gap of about 1/16 inch all around the copper pipe, which allows me to wiggle the valve all around. If the copper pipe is supposed to fig snugly inside this "collar" to enable the teeth to "bite" into it, then this is simply too big, and the guy at the store handed me the wrong thing 20 minutes before closing.

I'm only asking just in case I'm the idiot, since I've never used one of these before, and I was ready to run back to the store before I found out they were closed.

Again, sorry if I'm coming across as being rude, but I'm going to be without water until I get home from work tomorrow because I'm an idiot for trusting this guy, even though I pointed out that the valve says 5/8 and I'm using 1/2 pipe. He told me the 5/8 refers to the outer diameter of the valve, and the 1/2 NOM means it's meant for 1/2 pipe.
 
  #6  
Old 02-12-12, 06:59 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,990
Received 84 Upvotes on 76 Posts
Well its a nominal fitting and its made in america.

Its the right size. I would say push it in and make sure it goes in all the way. It should probably insert about 1/2".

Then it does not pull out by hand right? Its locked on?

If so even though it seems loose its probably still seals. have someone turn the water back on slowly to check for leaks.

No leaks I would say your good to go.

But I would only use the water while your home. Turn it off when out just incase. Then get a new valve tomorrow and replace to see if the same fit.

Thats the best I can tell you on that fitting.

You sure all the pieces were in the valve and nothing left in the bag? Sometimes the plastic inserts fall out or are not in there.

What do the instructions say?

Its an American product so I would think the instruction may be better written then the overseas stuff.

Mike NJ
 
  #7  
Old 02-12-12, 07:12 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 36,607
Upvotes: 0
Received 9 Upvotes on 8 Posts
1/2" nom means it will (or should) fit 1/2" pipe, whether it is copper, cpvc, pex. Unless you got a mis-packaged valve.... There should not be too much play when you insert the pipe. Once you slam it in, it should not wiggle and definitely shouldn't come off. I know hindsight is 20-20, but I keep 2 ea 1/2 and 2 ea 3/4 sharkbite caps on my truck. You never know what you will run into, and if you have to leave the water off overnight, as in your case, no problem. Wish I had better information for you.
 
  #8  
Old 02-12-12, 08:22 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,990
Received 84 Upvotes on 76 Posts
Buy American Act and American Recovery & Reinvestment Act - The Keeney Manufacturing Company / PlumbPak

I have used these products and personally dont find them very good.

Even though made in America not all parts are from keeney. I believe the home store parts as are most others are made overseas or Mexico.

Just my opinion of the product and you may have got a defective one.

Example: I was in a pinch and bought thier FIP valves and the tolerance was too off and I could catch 1 or 2 threads on the valve, then it would quickly tighten. So much so that two valve bodys cracked at the brass. Just could not turn them on any farther.

Hard to explain but thats my thoughts.

Mike NJ
 
  #9  
Old 02-12-12, 09:12 PM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 16,321
Received 38 Upvotes on 30 Posts
If the valve says it is for 1/2 inch nominal pipe then it fits copper pipe that is 5/8 inch outside diameter. Pipe is measured by its INSIDE diameter and then rounded up or down depending on the wall thickness. If your pipe is only 1/2 inch outside diameter then you have 3/8 inch nominal pipe.

It IS possible that whoever plumbed your house cheaped out and only ran 3/8 inch pipe to the toilet. Toilets don't require much volume so 3/8 (nominal) pipe would be more than adequate. If you do indeed have 3/8 inch piping then that 1/2 inch nominal valve won't work.
 
  #10  
Old 02-17-12, 05:50 PM
plumbingods's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Manch-vegas, New Hampshire
Posts: 1,985
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I agree with Furd that the pipe is most likely a smaller pipe than 1/2" ID / 5/8" OD copper. 60 yrs ago, some toilets were piped with 1/2"OD soft tubing directly into the ballcock.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: