Adding a shower to an ejector pump in basement

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Old 09-04-13, 08:06 AM
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Adding a shower to an ejector pump in basement

I purchased my home a few years back. I have a small closed in the basement where my wife wanted to add a bathroom. After removing the wall of the closet, I find that there was a half bath before. There is an ejector pump and connections for a wash basin and toilet.

My question is what would be the easiest way to go ahead and add a shower to this setup?

Here are detailed photos:

Postimage.org / gallery - 20130904 073217, 20130904 073227, 20130904 073239, 20130904 073255

Is this something I can do myself?
 
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Old 09-04-13, 08:25 AM
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Welcome to the forums!

I don't think it would be a big deal, though you'll obviously need to cut/break up part of your slab to run the pipe and trap. I admittedly don't have much experience with ejector pumps, I'm sure some of the other plumber-types will be around soon.
 
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Old 09-04-13, 09:11 AM
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Some of the questions I have is:

1. Would I have to dig the whole to where the existing toilet is connected to the tank and dig up that line as well. How would I have to modify the plumbing so that both of the lines can drain into the tank. Any pictures on the web that I can see?

2. As you can see in the pictures, the sink does not drain into the ejector pump. It's about 8-12" inches of the ground. Can I have the shower drain into this? If so, what pump would I use for that?
 
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Old 09-04-13, 09:54 AM
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You need to break up the cement from the shower to the pump...

You could tie into the toilet line but would need to run a seperat vent on the shower leg... Running directly to the tank elimiates the vent because the tank is vented...

Can I have the shower drain into this? If so, what pump would I use for that?
No..................
 
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Old 09-04-13, 09:58 AM
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Thanks. From what I understand the tank only has one line opening into it and that opening is on one side. I obviously have to break up the cement till that opening. But once I get there, will it be easy to add in the shower drain to the existing toilet drain? What does that joint look like?
 
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Old 09-04-13, 10:04 AM
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But once I get there, will it be easy to add in the shower drain to the existing toilet drain? What does that joint look like?
Cant tie into toilet drain unless you vent the shower...

You run to the tank with the shower and you drill a new hole... This hole needs to be at a certain height in the tank above the max water line in the tank.
 
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Old 09-04-13, 10:11 AM
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Ok that makes sense. How do I seal the pvc pipe coming from the shower to the hole I drill in the tank. Seems like I'll need quite a bit of space to get the drill around the tank to be able to drill a whole through the tank.

I don't know how old the ejector pump is. To test it, I can just put some water down the toilet drain and see if the mercury float switch works and the ejector pump starts?
 
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Old 09-04-13, 10:20 AM
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Yes pour water....

You use a right angle drill and a 2" hole-saw... The pipe will just fit perfect... Use silicone around the pipe...
 
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Old 09-25-13, 08:02 AM
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Ok. I'm going to have to dig the cement and lay down the pipe for the shower. My question is can the wash basin and shower feed into the same pipe that goes into the ejector pump? Would that be fine since the ejector pump is vented?
 
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Old 09-25-13, 08:18 AM
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After snooping around the code, you need to vent everything like a normal bath. If you draw me whats there I could ge a better visual.

I know its only the toilet on the ejector but I think that needs a vent too. If it has one then that will become the basin/vent, then tie the shower into the basin arm below slab.
 
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Old 09-25-13, 08:55 AM
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Ok. I've removed the dry wall and just took some detailed photos:

Postimage.org / gallery - 20130925 115140, 20130925 115153, 20130925 115210

Will these do? Or do you still need a diagram?

Thanks,
 
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Old 09-25-13, 10:55 AM
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Take a pic far away so I can see where you want to put the shower. I can edit your pics and show you...

Where does that pipe lead to left from the sink???? ( I may have asked this already)
 
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Old 09-25-13, 01:34 PM
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here is a picture from far away:

View image: 20130925 160811

Shower will go against the wall. After the shower (on the same wall) there will be the vanity. The toilet will not be moved.

Answer your question:

There use to be a kitchen in the basement which the old owner removed. The pipes were going to the sink for that.


My questions

I'm going to break up the floor and put a 1.5" pipe with a 2" drain for the shower going into the ejector tank.

Option 1 . I can have the sink and shower connect together and go into the same pipe that is going into the ejector tank. If I do it this way, I would vent out both the shower and the sink to a different pipe and connect that to the vent coming out of the ejector tank.

Option 2. Use the existing sink plumbing and extend it out to the where the vanity will now go. It is already vented so need to do anything on this. For the shower, from your earlier replies, it seems that I don't have to vent it since it is going into the ejector tank using it's own pipe.

Also what is the best way to cut up the cement. What saw should I purchase?
 
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Old 09-25-13, 02:15 PM
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There use to be a kitchen in the basement which the old owner removed. The pipes were going to the sink for that.

So there is no sink in the kitchen? So you can cut that tee at the vanity and make it an ell and remove that kitchen pipe.

But if you follow the kitchen line is there a vent there?

I'm going to break up the floor and put a 1.5" pipe with a 2" drain for the shower going into the ejector tank.

Has to be all 2"

Option 1 . I can have the sink and shower connect together and go into the same pipe that is going into the ejector tank. If I do it this way, I would vent out both the shower and the sink to a different pipe and connect that to the vent coming out of the ejector tank.
I dont think you can do that...


Option 2. Use the existing sink plumbing and extend it out to the where the vanity will now go. It is already vented so need to do anything on this. For the shower, from your earlier replies, it seems that I don't have to vent it since it is going into the ejector tank using it's own pipe.
Yes you need to vent the shower unless you tie it into the 2" vent for the toilet, but looks like theres not a lot of room.

Shower will go against the wall
Wall on left? And vanity on left after shower?
 
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Old 09-25-13, 02:17 PM
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Does the vent for the vanity tie into one of those 3" lines/vent for the ejector?
 
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Old 09-25-13, 05:05 PM
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Does the vent for the vanity tie into one of those 3" lines/vent for the ejector?
In the picture:

View image: 20130925 115210

The pipe in the right hand side goes up and finally connects to the same vent coming out of the ejector tang. Does this mean that this pipe also is the vent for the toilet?

I don't see a vent for the toilet anywhere else.
 
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Old 09-25-13, 05:08 PM
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So there is no sink in the kitchen? So you can cut that tee at the vanity and make it an ell and remove that kitchen pipe.

But if you follow the kitchen line is there a vent there?
Yes. There is no longer a kitchen so I was going to cut off those lines and use them for the new vanity and shower. I don't think there is a vent on the kitchen side. Looks like the kitchen drain was being shared with the vanity drain and that is vented.

Wall on left? And vanity on left after shower?
Yes.
 
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Old 09-25-13, 05:26 PM
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Does this mean that this pipe also is the vent for the toilet?

Yes that is the vent for the toilet.


OK that arm for the sink now will be too long. you will need to terminate that...

Like this...

Name:  basement vent ejector.jpg
Views: 5307
Size:  20.2 KB
 
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Old 09-25-13, 05:50 PM
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Thanks that makes sense. Couple of questions on your diagram.

1. It seems that you are suggesting that the vanity drain connects to the shower drain which then lead into the ejector tank.

2. So the vent would go up straight up from the vanity. Is that sufficient to vent the shower drain as well?
 
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Old 09-25-13, 06:29 PM
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1. It seems that you are suggesting that the vanity drain connects to the shower drain which then lead into the ejector tank.

2. So the vent would go up straight up from the vanity. Is that sufficient to vent the shower drain as well?
#1 yes...........


#2 yes..... If the sink uses water it will not pull from the shower trap, because of the vent ,it will pull from there when draining. Like letting your finger off a straw filled with water.

The shower when draining will not pull from the sink trap because as it moves it will pull air in from its own strainer, and as it rushes past the Y will not siphon from the sink trap because of the sink vent...

All venting is, is to prevent flow from siphoning other traps out. You have to think like a trap when plumbing.

Technically in this pipe configuration the toilet vent is not needed now... But its there leave it.

Normally instead of the way I show you how to do it in my other drawing, the sink and shower normally get tied into the toilet vent under the slab. But clearly that would be impossible...



Name:  vent toilet.jpg
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Size:  43.4 KB
 
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Old 09-26-13, 09:00 AM
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It all makes sense now. Just trying to figure out the tools I would need.

1. For copper pipes. What's the best way to cut pipes which are already installed? Saw, roto tool or something else you recomend?

2. add add a joint to the cooper pipe to turn them 90's. Is using a handheld propane torch the best thing to join the cooper pipes to the joint?

3. How to cut existing vent pipes and make joints with the new vents that I'm going to add. Is there a website or video that you can recommend for me to learn on what the best way to make the plumbing joints?

4. Cutting up the concrete on the floor. What sort of saw/blade should I buy?

Thanks,

vj
 
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Old 09-26-13, 09:08 AM
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1. For copper pipes. What's the best way to cut pipes which are already installed? Saw, roto tool or something else you recomend?
Pipe cutter... For tight space a minnie pipe cutter.






2. add add a joint to the cooper pipe to turn them 90's. Is using a handheld propane torch the best thing to join the cooper pipes to the joint?
Do you know how to solder??? I would not trust anything in a wall other then a soldered joint or pex....


3. How to cut existing vent pipes and make joints with the new vents that I'm going to add. Is there a website or video that you can recommend for me to learn on what the best way to make the plumbing joints?
PVC...You use glue and primer... I will try to find something later.


4. Cutting up the concrete on the floor. What sort of saw/blade should I buy?
Rent a jack hammer for quick work. A small Hilti may work but take more time. The slab should be 4" thick.

Then you dig... You need to pitch the pipe 1/4" per ft and a slope toward the pit.
 
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Old 09-28-13, 06:33 AM
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I'd like to do everything according to building code:

1. Couple of questions:

1. Do I remove the entire dry wall on the left where the shower and the vanity is going? Will the city inspector require that?

2. Do I need to put in a exhaust fan in the bathroom. I read somewhere that if you have a window (which I do) I should be covered.

3. There is an existing ejector tank there that came with the house. It looks professionally installed but I'm not sure if it was inspected or not. When moving the vanity and installing the shower, can they ask me to redo things on that end which I'm not changing?
 
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Old 09-28-13, 08:34 AM
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1. Do I remove the entire dry wall on the left where the shower and the vanity is going? Will the city inspector require that?
How are you finishing the shower? If tile, you'll want to do use cement board or something similar. If a one-piece shower, the drywall needs to be removed anyway. Otherwise, you may want to consider using greenboard (moisture-resistant drywall).
But to answer your question directly, it depends on the inspector. If nothing has changed in that wall, you may be able to get away with not pulling it down.

2. Do I need to put in a exhaust fan in the bathroom. I read somewhere that if you have a window (which I do) I should be covered.
Typically, you are correct. You need wither a window or an exhaust fan. Many people install an exhaust fan anyway to reduce moisture, smells, and the chance of mold. It's unlikely in the winter that you'll open the window. I've decided to install exhaust fans in any full bath... but that's just me.

3. There is an existing ejector tank there that came with the house. It looks professionally installed but I'm not sure if it was inspected or not. When moving the vanity and installing the shower, can they ask me to redo things on that end which I'm not changing?
Again, it's up to the inspector. Typically, pieces that you're not touching are grandfathered in, as long as they were installed correctly at the time. As long as it looks correct, I'd see what the inspector says. If it's incorrect, he can certainly have you make corrections.

good luck!
 
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Old 09-29-13, 07:00 AM
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How are you finishing the shower? If tile, you'll want to do use cement board or something similar.
Yes. I'm doing tile. So the cement board goes on the studs and not the dry wall.

If nothing has changed in that wall, you may be able to get away with not pulling it down
I'm going to add copper pipes and vents behind the wall. So stuff has changed. I think it is just safer to remove the entire wall.

I've decided to install exhaust fans in any full bath... but that's just me.
Ok. Can I vent the exhaust fan into the vent from the toilet and vanity drain?

Typically, pieces that you're not touching are grandfathered in, as long as they were installed correctly at the time
It's a little scary hearing this. Since the inspection in my town is supposed to be quite strict. Well I've started this and there is no going back. :-
 
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Old 09-29-13, 10:49 AM
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Can the exhaust vent tie into the vent coming from the toilet and vanity and ejector pump?

Also the existing vent vents out of the side of the house. Is that ok with the plumbing code?
 
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Old 09-29-13, 03:50 PM
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Yes. I'm doing tile. So the cement board goes on the studs and not the dry wall.
Correct. Drywall tends to rot over time when used under tile. Cement board attached to the studs using cement board screws is the way to go (don't us ordinary drywall screws, they'll rust)

Can I vent the exhaust fan into the vent from the toilet and vanity drain?
Negatory. It should be a 3" vent out the side (or roof) of the house. They sell vent kits along with the vent fans that have everything you need, the tubing, the damper, etc.

Also the existing vent vents out of the side of the house. Is that ok with the plumbing code?
As far as I know, it's a local decision. I was able (per the inspector) to vent out a side wall as long as it's not below any windows and a certain distance away from windows or any fresh air vents. Many times, it may go out the side of the house, but still has to be terminated above the roofline.

It probably makes sense to take a few pictures or drawings of what you're planning and go see the inspector. It's easier to sit down and ask a few questions and make changes on paper instead of waiting for your rough inspection. Most inspectors are happy to answer specific questions. It makes it easier for them in the long run. Remember, their job is to make sure you do things correctly - I'm sure they'd rather give you a 'Pass' rather than have to come back and inspect it again
 
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Old 10-04-13, 05:20 PM
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I'm looking to break up the cement floor today. From what I've seen on google, it seems:

1. Get a saw. Three options: demolition saw, a circular saw, or a grinder with a dry cut diamond blade. What saw should I get?

2. Once the cuts are made, I can break up the floor with a rotary hammer. Again, any recommendations on what I need to get?

Should I rent or buy?
 
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Old 10-04-13, 07:12 PM
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I use a jack hammer... Does not make a clean cut but way, way less dust....

Yes, cut and jackhammer/rotary
 
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Old 10-16-13, 08:33 AM
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After taking down the drywall on the left. It has some load bearing studs. Is it ok to have the vent go around the studs. I can move the wall out a few inches since the vanity is only 22" deep.

Also from a building code perspective is there a minimum height that the vent has to go straight up before it can bent and joint to main vent coming form the ejector tank?
 
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Old 10-18-13, 03:48 PM
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I can move the wall out a few inches since the vanity is only 22" deep.
Yes. You can create a false wall that is built around the drain. It could be the height of the vanity (with a deeper countertop) or could go up to the ceiling.

Also from a building code perspective is there a minimum height that the vent has to go straight up before it can bent and joint to main vent coming form the ejector tank?
Yes, the vent has to go up 18" above the flood rim of the vanity before it turns horizontal. There is a caveat that it can turn lower if it would be in the way of a medicine cabinet or similar. It needs to go as high as possible.
 
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