Pressurized Water Tank - schraeder valve - doesn't register pressure

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  #1  
Old 09-13-13, 11:55 AM
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Pressurized Water Tank - schraeder valve - doesn't register pressure

I have had high pressure & lots of air spurts coming out of all water lines in the house.

The pump is in the basement, and we get the water from the stream on the property. I keep the pressure at 20 pounds low, 40 pounds high.

The pressurized tank has the schraeder valve on top. I've checked the air pressure in the tank with no water in the lines, and it registers zero. I try to put air in it for several minutes, and the pressure still reads zero.

It is a very basic system. Turn on the water, and spurts of high pressurized air & water blow out. Most of the time it runs ok, but for example, doing dishes, the water will slow, and all of a sudden, burst out and shoot across the entire kitchen.

Question: Why would the tank not register any pressure? I've checked it at the schraeder valve with several different gauges.

The pump shuts on and off normally, on a normal cycle. We don't lose pressure in the lines.
 
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Old 09-13-13, 02:47 PM
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With the tank de pressurized, you should be a few pounds below cut in pressure, so if your cut in is set at 20 lbs, you should pressurize the tank to about 18 pounds or so, using an air compressor or charged air tank. 20 lbs is really low water pressure. Normal is in the 30 cut in to 60 cut out range. The reason it is spurting water all over the place is once you turn on the faucet it takes a few seconds for the pump to kick on and all that pressure has to go some where. You tame that with the bladder tank properly pressurized.
 
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Old 09-13-13, 03:05 PM
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The spurting happens all of the time, not only when we turn on the faucet.

I don't know if the tank has no air/air pressure or if something's wrong with the tank or the schraeder valve.

I spent quite a while with my compressor filling the tank, hearing the air entering, and still have zero pressure registering????
 
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Old 09-13-13, 04:33 PM
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Turn on the water, and spurts of high pressurized air & water blow out. Most of the time it runs ok, but for example, doing dishes, the water will slow, and all of a sudden, burst out and shoot across the entire kitchen.
I was just going by this statement. Where does the spurting take place? Do you have sufficient supply of water to fill the tank? Being from a spring or waterway, is the foot valve underwater all the time, or does it suck air?

It shouldn't take more than a minute to fill the tank with air to a sufficient pressure. If you continually put air in the tank, and it doesn't pressurize, it is a possibility the bladder is broken and you are just running air back into the system. how old is the tank?
 
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Old 09-13-13, 04:46 PM
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How much water are you getting between the pump shutting off and cycling back on again? Does the pump short cycle, where it goes on and off real quickly? How big is the pressure tank?
 
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Old 09-13-13, 05:14 PM
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A pneumatic tank that has the shrader on the top is normally a bladder type tank but not always.
Could you maybe have a galvanized non-bladder tank that uses an air volume valve which is a valve mounted to the side of the tank.

If you depress the shrader does water squirt out when there is water pressure on the system.?
If you have a bladder tank and water comes out the bladder is damaged and you need to replace the tank.

There is one part of your description that does not make sense.
If your system builds water pressure and the pressure stays when the pump shuts off you will have a foot valve that is working.
If you try to fill the pneumatic tank with air with either a damaged bladder or a non-bladder tank the foot valve should hold and the system should fill with air.

It might be possible that you have a leak in the suction piping to the creek which might explain the lack of holding air when pumping up and air getting into the system when you turn on a tap.
 
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Old 09-13-13, 07:37 PM
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The spurts happen randomly, like there is air in the system.

The foot valve is in the creek, always submerged, and the system always pulls water. The tank is 44 gallons approximate.. and has some years on it, but doesn't seem too old. I don't know for sure.

Water does not come out of the shrader valve, and the valve is on top on the tank.

Silt and sediment does accumulate on the valve, which I need to brush off while under water.

The time for the system to empty and for the cut in / pump turning on seems normal and takes some time. I can't figure out how the tank could not have air, and the cycle be normal.
 
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Old 09-14-13, 03:51 AM
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What color is your pressure tank? Do you have any external pipe leaks that you can detect? Not only can they leak water, but they can introduce air into the pipes. Just thinkin' out loud.
 
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Old 09-14-13, 05:33 AM
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Also, when you put air in the tank, can you hear the air flowing into it? Perhaps the shrader valve is faulty and not letting air in or pressure out (for a reading).
 
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Old 09-14-13, 07:49 AM
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Doesn't make sense that if the system had built up the water pressure and you are unable to maintain air pressure in the tank, it should fill with air???
 
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Old 09-14-13, 11:32 AM
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Like OptsyEagle, I'm wondering if the shrader valve is defective. You should be able to hear air going into the tank when you are trying to add it! If you know the air is going in and it's not building pressure, then you'd need to find where the air is escaping.
 
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Old 09-14-13, 02:58 PM
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The water line down to the creek starts in the basement and underground 50 yards down to the water. I guess there could be leaks somewhere underground.

When I put air into the tank, I can hear it going in. The first time the other day, I put air in it for about 20 seconds, put the gauge on the Schrader, and it read zero. The second time, I put air in it for maybe a minute, checked it again, nothing. THe third time,, which I thought I was going to blow up the tank, I put air in for about 3 minutes, again zero pressure reading.
 

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Old 09-14-13, 04:12 PM
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The easiest thing you could try is to replace the foot valve.
If you have the same problem with a new foot valve a test of the line to the creek would be to remove the suction line at the pump and install fittings to adapt a shrader valve to it.
If the line won't hold air it would be time to replace the line.
 
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Old 09-14-13, 05:50 PM
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Have you tried pressing down on the shrader valve right after you have pumped some air into the tank to see if air will come back out.

If you cannot get the air back out that you just put in or a pressure reading at all then I have to assume that either your shrader valve is malfunctioning or your pressure tank's bladder is toast.

Do you know how much water drawdown (amount of water you get between when the pump turns off and when it cycles back on again) you are getting from the tank currently and do you know if it that amount has reduced from a few weeks or months ago?

The other thing you could do is try to take a pressure reading from the shrader valve when the tank is full. If you do not get a reading then, the valve must be faulty. If you do get a reading then, I am betting your bladder is ruptured.
 
  #15  
Old 09-15-13, 05:29 AM
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Maybe the valve tip has broken off or seated to deeply for your pressure check device to press it open.
 
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Old 09-18-13, 09:30 AM
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I went down and took a reading on the valve when the system was full of water on Sunday. The pressure in the system read 25, the pressure from the Schrader valve was at 23.
 
  #17  
Old 09-18-13, 11:42 AM
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Sounds like your bladder in the tank is ruptured. Obviously the shrader valve is working so the only reason you didn't get any reading before was that the air was escaping, probably out the water intake valve. Obviously a sealed bladder would prevent that.

I would refill the tank and try to determine the drawdown of water you are getting. Then keep an eye on that amount. If you find it decreasing over the next few weeks, then it is confirmed that your bladder is ruptured and you should replace the pressure tank.
 
  #18  
Old 10-01-13, 07:22 AM
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At this point, I'd bet it's the bladder too.
I've been avoiding it, but I'm going to try and replace the tank myself. Not much room down in the basement around the pipes.
Thanks for the help gentlemen
 
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