Run gas line to new garage - 50' underground - to supply 50k btu

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Old 10-13-13, 07:34 AM
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Run gas line to new garage - 50' underground - to supply 50k btu

First - we will pull permit & have licenced plumber make final connections & test - but needing some basic information/suggestions.

New garage 22x22 with 12x20 shop - 50' to where we want to come into garage, then 9' up and 20' over to where heater will go. Have already purchased a 50k btu natural gas Mr Heater Big Maxx (so hopefully a reasonable heater - got on sale for $350).

Want to save some $ by digging own trench & running line (again - will get permit have tested & inspected before back-fill) - but want to make sure we are runing appropriate line. From what I've read - think we want to run CSST flexible tubing (though will be a pretty straight shot out to garage - one gentle curve but that's it) - but don't know.

2PSI coming into house. Only current appliance is the main boiler. Line splits before boiler with 2nd line (1/2" black pipe) that used to run to gas hot water heater and then to dryer - both gone, but piping still there to back of house.

So - what we were thinking - from where current 1/2" interior line ends - turn to outside with black pipe - then the CSST for the underground - then maybe copper tubing inside garage to the heater (? copper cannot go through walls?).

Anywhich - any information / suggestions greatly appreciated - or is even this part beyond our (basic handyman - most everything but gas) abilities.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 10-13-13, 08:06 AM
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Figure out who your going to have do the testing and final hook up's and have them tell you what materials and what size lines to install.
No plumber I know is going to put there license on the line if that parts done wrong.
 
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Old 10-13-13, 12:12 PM
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I would NEVER use CSST underground. The ONLY material to be used underground is listed polyethylene gas piping. It requires heat-welded fittings so it is NOT DIY friendly. Some jurisdictions MAY allow for special compression fittings in lieu of heat welded but I would prefer the heat welded.

In short, dig the trench but have the plumber supply the pipe and do all the fitting to inside the buildings.

Also, you MAY need to run all the way to the gas meter. I do not have my gas charts available at this time to check if the roughly 100 feet to the heater PLUS the distance from the tap-off to the meter is large enough at one-half inch to supply 50,000 BTUs. Nor would I use copper inside the building. Either use black steel or the CSST once inside the building. The poly will need to transition to black steel before coming above ground.
 
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Old 10-13-13, 02:32 PM
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Maybe I was mistaken with "CSST" - I meant the yellow Gastite piping -- from their website:
Underground Gas Polyethylene Piping System
"Unlike above-grade gas piping installations that require metallic piping, underground systems need to perform in harsh and corrosive environments. Metallic pipe installed underground requires additional and costly materials to protect the pipe. Polyethylene gas piping systems are specifically engineered and certified for the underground environment. To provide a true underground gas piping solution, Gastite� has partnered with Continental Industries, Inc. to offer PE tubing and components that assemble in minutes to form a complete underground gas piping system."

From their website - it seemed like it was very DIY friendly - didn't say anything about heat-welded fittings, etc.

But this is why I posted here - just to get some basic information since we really don't know anything about gas. Just wanted to see IF and WHAT we might do ourselves to save a few $. We were hoping to run off the existing - but if that's not an option, guess we would need to run a new line around in the basement. From what we had read - black steel was not to be used underground at all. And going with black steel inside the garage is fine - I just thought copper would be easier.

I have called two local plumbers - but at this point didn't even know what questions to ask them nor could I respond to the more technical questions they asked me. And they seemed very reluctant to provide any information / suggestions regarding what we could do, what materials, where to start, anything. I don't know if they are just very busy right now and didn't want to be bothered with a job like ours, or maybe I just called the wrong ones. Again - that's why I came here.

So it sounds like we will dig a trench and go back to trying to find a plumber to talk to us.

Thanks to both of you for your input.
 
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Old 10-13-13, 02:47 PM
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It all depends upon what your local jurisdiction requires in the LOCAL code. If the fittings used with the piping you refer to are allowable under your local code then DIY may indeed be a possibility. Steel pipe "risers" are used to protect the piping where it enters and leaves the ground from damage by weed trimmers and the like. These risers are threaded on the above-ground end and have the proper compression fittings on the below-ground end to fit the poly pipe. As long as you follow the local code requirements there is a good possibility that you can Do This Yourself and not even need a plumber at all.

You absolutely DO need a permit, however and subsequent inspection. If you are not adept in working with threaded black steel piping then the part inside the building can, local code permitting, be done with CSST (Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing) which is fairly easy to use and can be run with no joints other than the end fittings.
 
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Old 10-13-13, 03:30 PM
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I was thinking CSST & Gastite were one & the same: � The Gastite� system is a safe, time-saving and efficient method of installing piping for natural gas and liquefied propane gas. It utilizes corrugated, semi-rigid stainless steel tubing (CSST) with polyethylene jacketing and fully integrated, all-metal components. We offer a comprehensive system of fittings and accessories from our patented XR2 Series Fittings and exclusive Modular Stub System; to our regulators, mounting hardware and protection devices. Gastite complies with ANSI LC1 "Fuel Gas Piping Systems Using CSST" and is listed with CSA, ICC and IAPMO. �

So - the coating might be suseptable to the weed-wacker, but wouldn't think the stainless steel would be. And couldn't you just run the part that comes up above ground level in Schedule 80 PVC (like with electrical)? I am just very leary of using black steel underground - and actually thought I read somewhere that it is not legal in Minnesota. I do see where CSSI needs to be grounded - not an issue.

I'm now trying to determine if Gastite is the same as CSST or maybe an underground version of CSST, and if Minnesota code allows for Gastite.

And yes, as I said initially - we will pull a permit (always) and have everything inspected no matter who does what.

Again - thanks for the info - gives us more to research, and it nice to think that maybe some part of this (besides digging the trench) might be DIY.
 
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Old 10-13-13, 04:05 PM
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Check your codes but this is what your best bet would be... And yes you may not need a plumber...

Polyethylene gas piping underground. As far as size @ 2 psi I dont have my charts but will pull them out later. Thats a big heater for 500 sq ft???

poly





But what are you doing with the flue?

You will need two ends Ends are as furd described. Your depth is per code. here in NJ its 12" now. Used to be 18" On top of this you will need tracer wire per code.

 
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Old 10-13-13, 04:23 PM
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You hopefully could get one length in the ground. If not then you need an additional compression fitting if these are allowed per your code... ( I would think they are, but you are 2 psi so it may be different for you.)

These are the push type and I tell you they aint easy... See what is allowed for your codes.





Also then threaded pipe to get in the home/garage . Once in transition to corrugated steel. CSST,

You need two bulkhead fittings. (flange fitting) These make the transition outside from threaded to csst. mounts to outside wall and you just drill hole.

.
 
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Old 10-14-13, 06:05 AM
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As far as I can see Minnesota allows Gastite (although not as popular as in some areas since soft copper is still allowed here) - but I want to confirm with city inspector (think closed today because of Columbus Day). Code here is 12 and would need a tracer wire.

We have an exterior meter on the side of the house really dont want to run directly from there because of location in relation to where we want it to come into garage (a lot of snaking around instead of a direct shot).

The smaller pipe that goes around to the back of the house has an outside diameter of 7/8 - is this ? If we have to replace with larger - so be it - but sure would be nice if we could go on the 45-50' underground & 30-35' in garage.

As far as venting was thinking of just getting the 4 vertical Big Maxx vent kit (they have 3 not sure) We would need to have a second larger (6) pipe where it goes through the ceiling and again through the roof to keep away from combustibles. We have a 22x22 garage with a 12x30 across the back. The back room is split between a 10 unheated storage and 20 heated workshop. Our thinking was to mount heater on the back side of the garage angled so that the heat will circulate into the workshop. Figured we would angle vent pipe up inside roof line to vent closer to peak. Keep at 40-45 for cars and keep tools from sweating when temp raised when working out there.

sketch heavy line is proposed gas line reason to outer corner of workshop is a tree that is located next to garage. Can't figure out how to attach - it was a bad sketch anyway.

Anywhich - thank you so much for the info. Have a little bit more understanding where I might be able to ask more knowlegable questions. Really can't do much (except dig trench) until I talk to the inspecter.
 

Last edited by VanEss; 10-14-13 at 06:53 AM.
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