Splash back in kitchen sink from upstairs toilet

Reply

  #1  
Old 10-24-13, 09:15 AM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Splash back in kitchen sink from upstairs toilet

Hello All,

I have a very interesting problem. When the upstairs toilet is flushed, there is splash back into the kitchen sink of water. It doesn't fill it crazy at all, it just water splashes up from the drain.

I called in the water company and had them clear any clogs. The issue still pertains and they feel it has nothing to do with a clog, but the way the piping is, the water must be flowing down at such a force its causing water to splash back into the sink.

Does anyone know what can be done about this that doesn't involve destroying the whole house (ripping down tons of ceilings).

Could the piping under the sink be done maybe a little more to allow more room in the pipes for the splash back to stay there and not pop back into the sink? I have never seen anything like this so it is boggling my mind.

thank you!
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-24-13, 04:52 PM
P
Temporarily Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 10,986
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
If you are sure that there are no partial clogs, check the vents.
 
  #3  
Old 10-24-13, 06:07 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
where would I find the vents?
 
  #4  
Old 10-24-13, 06:19 PM
Z
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 5,126
Received 84 Votes on 79 Posts
Is the sink directly below the toilet? Can you take a picture of both under the kitchen sink as well as a picture from further back with your thoughts as to where the pipes are actually run.

Needless to say, you shouldn't be getting that splashing in a correctly implemented piping. Hopefully we'll see something that is obviously wrong and easy to fix

Also - as Pulpo asked, if you go outside and look to the roof over the toilet, do you see a pipe sticking up out of the roof? (That will be the vent)
 
  #5  
Old 10-25-13, 06:00 AM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I am pretty sure the sink is one floor directly below the toilet. Below is a picture of the piping under the sink:

I will be bale to take more pictures tonight when I am home.

Name:  20131024_210603.jpg
Views: 1300
Size:  39.5 KB
 

Last edited by ray2047; 10-25-13 at 06:13 AM. Reason: Correct Image orientation.
  #6  
Old 10-25-13, 06:35 AM
P
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 22,746
Received 481 Votes on 442 Posts
How old is your home? Many older homes have drain systems that are very poorly vented but a clog is still a possibility especially if this is a new problem.

Without proper venting all sorts of weird things can happen. When a toilet is flushed a big slug of water starts moving through the pipes. Without venting the air in front of the water is trapped and gets pressurized or pushed along. As the water moves the air has to go somewhere and your kitchen sink may be the path of least resistance. The air pushes past the water in the trap under the sink bubbling and splashing.
 
  #7  
Old 10-25-13, 06:44 AM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
We had the water company come and they already cleaned out the main line and checked for any and all clogs. The water drains fine and there is no backup. I need to check to see if I can see vents and such, not sure what I'm looking for there, but the water company has checked and stated there are no clogs.

The house is definitely older, not a new build. Its just such a puzzling issue - I am guessing we will probably need some piping redone in the ceilings to make the drop less powerful. I was hoping it would be an easy under the sink fix heh
 
  #8  
Old 10-25-13, 08:00 PM
P
Temporarily Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 10,986
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
You don't need to make the "drop less powerful" Either there is still a partial clog or the is a vent problem. You should see another vent somewhere on the foundation, especially if there is another toilet on the first floor. There should be a vent cover on it.
 
  #9  
Old 10-26-13, 07:37 AM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought a vent clog would cause the water to flush slowly or less powerful? I am seeing the exact opposite.
 
  #10  
Old 10-26-13, 08:19 AM
czizzi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,377
Received 10 Votes on 8 Posts
Fill the kitchen sink with water at least halfway up. Pull the drain and let us know if it drains quickly or if it slugs along and eventually drains.

If you can access the roof, go to the vent pipe above the bathroom and have someone flush the toilet. You should be able to hear the water rushing in the pipe as the toilet flushes. The toilet vent is also fairly wide and you should be able to shine a flashlight down it and see if any visible clogs (leaves, birds nest, rust, corrosion, etc) exist.

These two test will help us focus on a venting vs clog issue.
 
  #11  
Old 10-26-13, 08:43 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 18,139
Received 55 Votes on 48 Posts
IMO it would have nothing to do with a vent...

If water it coming into the sink from usage upstairs you have a partial clog...

Let me ask this... Has it always done this?
 
  #12  
Old 10-26-13, 08:46 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
I called in the water company and had them clear any clogs.
I find that an odd statement. As far as I know the only lines a water company will check is their lines. Are you sure they really checked the lines in your house. That is normally done by a plumber or sewer service.
 
  #13  
Old 10-26-13, 12:24 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
To answer the above questions:

1. we have a contract with the water company in which they come for sewer lines and in home plumbing. They came and cleared the house main line and also checked the kitchen and saw the water draining quite normally so determined there were no clogs.

2. I do not have access to the roof so I will have to call someone for that as I am way too scared to get up on that heh.

3. I will try to fill the kitchen sink tonight and see how quickly it drains. I don't think that there is a clog based on what the water company came and saw and how quickly the toilet flushes as well as how normal the kitchen sink drains.

4. i am not sure if this has always been a problem as we never noticed anything until as of recent.

thank you all for the help so far will try the few things that I can tonight
 
  #14  
Old 10-26-13, 12:33 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
just an update, filled the sink with 2 inches or water or so (maybe a little more) and then let it drain. It drained quite quickly without any issue.
 
  #15  
Old 10-26-13, 02:15 PM
czizzi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,377
Received 10 Votes on 8 Posts
Fill the sink all the way up. The pipes hold a certain volume of water. You need to introduce an amount of water greater than the volume of water the pipe can hold so that if a clog is present, the water will completely fill the pipe and then slow the draining of the sink. It is simulating the flush of the toilet and a large volume of water just not as fast.
 
  #16  
Old 10-28-13, 06:01 AM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
still drained without an issue after being filled all the way up.

I am going to try and take apart the plumbing under the sink. I will then stick a bag at the end of the pipe and see if water shoots into it from the toilet flush or if its excess air blowing through it.
 
  #17  
Old 10-28-13, 03:32 PM
P
Temporarily Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 10,986
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
A bag? Do you have a shop vac? Put the hose over the nipple & see if water blows into it.
 
  #18  
Old 10-28-13, 03:44 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
and also checked the kitchen and saw the water draining quite normally so determined there were no clogs.
They should have snaked it not looked at it so you can't say for sure if there is no clog. (What you get from lowest bidder trying to stay within a budget on a contract like that.)
 
  #19  
Old 10-28-13, 03:45 PM
czizzi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,377
Received 10 Votes on 8 Posts
If you disassemble the trap and remove the water, just put a bucket under the part of the trap that remains attached to the drain line in the wall. No need for a bag. Then test your theory.
 
  #20  
Old 10-28-13, 04:59 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
so this was a fun test. What I have found out is that there is extremely minimal water flowing to that pipe when the bathroom is flushed.

What I did happen to see is there is a ton of air flowing through the pipe which is what is causing the issue. The air is pretty powerful. what would that signify?
 
  #21  
Old 10-29-13, 06:35 AM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I am also not sure why the air is running into the kitchen piping under the sink from the upstairs toilet?

This one really has me boggled.
 
  #22  
Old 10-29-13, 07:04 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 18,139
Received 55 Votes on 48 Posts
Its probably has no vent and is tied directly into the waste line from upstairs...

If this is true then it has always done it... A AAV may be your best option IMO...

This shows bathroom sink but concept is the same...


 
  #23  
Old 10-29-13, 10:24 AM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
what exactly is that add on part called? I tried to google AAV with no dice. Where would I buy it also?
 
  #24  
Old 10-29-13, 10:37 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 18,139
Received 55 Votes on 48 Posts
Studor vent ( brand name) or Air admittance valve...
 
  #25  
Old 10-29-13, 02:59 PM
czizzi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,377
Received 10 Votes on 8 Posts
OP is getting a "push" of air, at the sink, not a pull of air. AAV's only let air in, not release air out. I would think that the AAV would need to be closer to the toilet, not the sink, as that is the side that needs the air assist.

Please feel free to correct if my logic is backwards.
 
  #26  
Old 10-29-13, 04:30 PM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
ahh yea, i don't need more air, i need a spot where it could vent out. I almost feel like cutting a penny size hole in the top of the pipe and putting a screen lol.

as stated above, i am getting a push of air into the sink line. Putting one of these on the toilet line would require quite a good amount of work.
 
  #27  
Old 10-29-13, 09:51 PM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,495
Received 34 Votes on 26 Posts
No doubt that this is a venting issue. It could be a clogged, or partially clogged vent or it could be that the proper venting was never installed. Unfortunately, diagnosis over the Internet will likely not be helpful.

One question, has it always been like this or has the problem developed recently?
 
  #28  
Old 10-30-13, 03:53 AM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Honestly, this problem could have always been there, I just never noticed it. I am unsure if its new or not. I will have to call in a plumber or someone who can clear out our vent on the roof and see if the problem still persists.
 
  #29  
Old 10-30-13, 04:07 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
You need to call a real plumber to snake the drain and check it out. {opinion} For the money you have flushed down the drain with that water company service contract you could have paid for a plumber who was more concerned about fixing your problem.
 
  #30  
Old 10-31-13, 10:12 AM
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I don't really think the contract was a waste. They are sending someone back to snake the 2 lines in the house. My contract costs 100$ a year. Just to have a plumber come into the house is 100$ let alone fix this issue would prob be 400-500$
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: