Water heater pilot goes out but only in winter.

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Old 11-25-13, 11:46 PM
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Smile Water heater pilot goes out but only in winter.

Hi, about 4 years ago I had a new gas furnace installed. That winter began problems with my water heater staying lit. It is absolutely not wind related.
The water heater was well beyond it's life expectancy so I replaced it. I had the same problem with the new water heater (Bradford White). Plumbers came out and replaced the inner burner and valve parts under warranty.

I continued having the same problem as with the original water heater. I have narrowed it down to it going off when the oven, furnace, and water heater are all on at the same time.

My gas lines that tee off to the cook stove and a separate tee to the water heater appear to be heavily corroded. (House is 90 + years old) I want to replace from the meter, the tees with lines to water heater and cook stove to the point the furnace has new black steel line.

The older corroded lines do not appear to be black steel, some galvanized. Appears to be pieced together with what was available? No drip legs except for new line to furnace.

The water heater and all other appliances work flawlessly except when all three demand gas. Only the water heater goes out and it has the most corrosion on it's gas line under the house.

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Can 1 tee off of the main line to serve both the cook stove and water heater?
Does the cook stove need a drip leg?
Or should I follow the old routing? adding drip leg if required?
After I replace the gas lines I'll call the gas company if still not sufficient gas.

I plan to use black steel line unless recommended otherwise.
Thanks!

Edit- A reciprocating saw was used to cut the gas line away from old floor furnace and thread in new line to the new location of furnace. It is this disturbance of the old corroded lines that make me think they are partially clogged inside. The water heater is the lowest line before coming up through the floor. About 15 years ago I replaced old galvanized water lines with PVC. I could not see daylight through a 12" section of the old pipe. I know that was water but still I imagine that when I see the outside corrosion on these gas lines.
 
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Old 11-26-13, 04:23 AM
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Hello and welcome.

I cant see your drawing... Too small.

You need to size the gas lines properly... Add all the BTU's of all the appliances in the home. Then once we determine the farthust appliance from the meter we can start working off the gas chart,
 
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Old 11-26-13, 07:44 PM
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Thank you Lawrosa,
I had hoped to respond today with the btu info with the distances.
Unfortunately it might be a few days before I can get back(Thanksgiving activities)
If you could give me a few days I would appreciate it.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!
 
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Old 11-26-13, 08:51 PM
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Yes take your time. We are here.........
 
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Old 12-02-13, 09:05 PM
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Hi,
The distance to the furthest appliance is approximately 28'
Furnace-BTU Heating Input 69,000 max.

Teeing off of that line in the first 10' from the meter are two appliance.

The first tee is the Cook Stove with 1-5,000 BTU burner
2-9,500 BTU burners &
1-13,500 BTU burner.
Could find no BTU info for oven. Installation instruction requires 3/4 inch line.

The second tee is the Water Heater 40,000 BTU/hr

I do appreciate your time.
 
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Old 12-03-13, 04:51 AM
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222500 btu total @ 30 ft = 1" pipe should be entering the home from the meter.. Is this true?

If its not, and it would be more labor to repipe the home, it may be best to run a dedicated line 1/2" from the meter to the HWH..

This of course if this indeed your issue...

1. was the furnace installed the same size as the previous one?
2. Did you al=ways have an issue with the HWH?
3. If not wind was a wind cap at least installed on the roof/vent for the HWH?


What size gas meter do you have? Look at the label on the meter and let us know...
 
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Old 12-03-13, 10:44 AM
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I do have 1' pipe from the meter entering into the crawl space. (the outside diameter of the steel pipe is about 1 5/8 inch painted.

1. I don't know. The old floor furnace was more than 50 years old according to Sears (roebuck) who looked at it one time. I have nothing left of it to check the BTU.

2. I did not always have an issue with the HWH.

3. The flu pipe enters into an old brick chimney in the attic. There is no wind cap. I might add though that the HWH does not go out in 80 mph wind from the north nor from 60 mph gusts from the south as experienced this spring and summer. We have learned to check to see if it is still lit after wind events and not one time has wind caused it to go out.

Gas Meter-175 CFH @1/2" DIFF

Can I send a link to SkyDrive for picture or how do I do that. http://sdrv.ms/1bdRF0O
Correction-the first tee from meter is the HWH. It is the lowest of all the lines. (Too low in my humble opinion. It angles down nearly to the ground before turning under a joist then up through the floor. Tried to get a picture.
 
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Old 12-03-13, 08:06 PM
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The question was asked if the new furnace was the same size as the old one.
My response was that I don't know.
We removed a very old floor furnace and have a unit outside the house combined with the AC. I questioned my wife and she is certain that the gas bill went down as a result of the new combined unit while heating more rooms than previously.
Maybe that is not useful information but it is all I have on the furnace.- works better with less gas. (according to dollars spent.)
 
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Old 12-06-13, 02:00 PM
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I am wrong about when the water heater goes out.

The water heater has gone out three times in the past three days without the oven on.
One factor is the temperature outside has been around 20 degrees to around 14 for a low. The air is relatively dry. the drop in our temperatures seem to coincide with the frequency the water heater goes out.
There is no problem relighting the pilot.
The water heater is the only appliance with a pilot.
Was my meter size ok?
 
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Old 12-06-13, 02:04 PM
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I would check the flue... possibly the flue was installed too far in chimnet and there is blockage... Or tiles broke and fell in blocking the flue...

The pilot may be going out for that because of overheating and a thermal swittch in the burner chamber...

Also the air intake could be blocked and causing the same issue...

Can you post the model # of the heater? Bradford white correct?
 
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Old 12-06-13, 02:23 PM
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I don't know how to check the flu entering into the chimney too far. I did just check to see if the flu is drawing in at the top and it is drawing air as it is heating. The intakes are kept clean.
Bradford White Model# M14OT6FBN
 
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Old 12-06-13, 04:07 PM
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Is the thermal couple tight at the gas valve? I have seen these loose at times from the factory....

This is the three things. If its not one of these have the installer replace the gas valve.....

1. Insufficient combustion air supply.
2. Incorrect, clogged vent system/ vent
terminal or location.
3. Inconsistent gas supply or gas pressure.


1. Verify adequate combustion air is available
to the unit. Check and clear Jacket slot
openings of any dirt, dust, restrictions or
other obstructions. Inspect flame arrestor
plate and clean with stiff bristled brush
and/or vacuum to remove any debris
accumulation.
2. Check venting for proper sizing and proper
operation
3. Check gas supply and line pressure.
 
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Old 12-06-13, 04:29 PM
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OK, I am going to check these things. I'll call the gas company to check my meter.
 
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Old 12-06-13, 05:06 PM
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Hi, I had a problem once that the pilot light went out every time the main burner came on and the unit shut down, The problem was the main burner created a draft and pulled the pilot away from the thermocouple and the pilot went out. The fix was to clean the pilot system and thermocouple.
Woodbutcher
 
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Old 12-06-13, 05:32 PM
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The problem was the main burner created a draft and pulled the pilot away from the thermocouple and the pilot went out.

The combustion chambers are sealed now... Dont think it could happen...
 
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Old 12-06-13, 05:47 PM
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Hi lawrosa, you're probably right. That was an old furnace and I found the problem by just watching the operation. It wouldn't take long to take a peak at it though.
Woodbutcher
 
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Old 12-09-13, 10:27 PM
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New Gas Meter

Hi, I have read and considered all advice. The problem only occurs in winter or when temperatures drop below about (22 degrees this year). Since the furnace is located outside the home I didn't think there would be any change in pressures inside the home due to the furnace as compared to summer with the AC on.
I called the gas company after 8:30 this morning due to Lawrosa suggesting checking the gas supply. We had to leave for the hospital by 10:30 but the gas company considered it an emergency (suspected meter problem)
The repairman said the meter was old, perhaps original and skipped checking the meter to save time. By 10:30 I had a new meter installed, pressure checked, and painted new fittings. The temperature was 10 when he started and never reached 20 all day.
We arrived home about 10 pm about 10 degree temperature and the Water Heater is still lit and has cycled on and off after using the water. Too early to call it a fix but we are hopeful.
Thank you for your time, we are grateful. I will, in the future, install the wind cap and replace the gas line to the water heater.
Thanks again.
 
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