issues regarding very long runs of pipe
#1
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issues regarding very long runs of pipe
my bathrooms are 50-60 feet from kitchen in ranch with crawl. there are two electric hot water heaters by the kitchen, near well. there is also a circulating pump for hot water, but it's not great and it's wasteful. i'm planning a master bath reno.
issues are:
1. improving hot water access
2. improving pressure
things i'm considering that may solve some problems
1a. move one heater to other side of house
2a. install a manifold so other sources will not steal flow from each other
or
1a. move one heater to other side of house
2b. install another pressure tank
2b. just install manifold and dedicated run to shower
What would be optimal? A tankless would be significant effort but can be done with this planned major reno, or may be wiser to just wait for new tank to die.
thanks, bb
issues are:
1. improving hot water access
2. improving pressure
things i'm considering that may solve some problems
1a. move one heater to other side of house
2a. install a manifold so other sources will not steal flow from each other
or
1a. move one heater to other side of house
2b. install another pressure tank
2b. just install manifold and dedicated run to shower
What would be optimal? A tankless would be significant effort but can be done with this planned major reno, or may be wiser to just wait for new tank to die.
thanks, bb
#3
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I have two water heaters. One (electric) is located close to the master bath while the other (gas) is close to the kitchen, laundry and spare bathrooms. During normal operation they both feed the house's hot water system. Because of the flow resistance through the piping it does a pretty good job of drawing hot water from the closest heater.
If you want to insure that water is drawn from the appropriate heater you can install a valve between the two sides of the house and keep closed normally. Then if one water heater dies you can open the valve and run the house off the other heater. You will need a shutoff valve on the infeed to the water heaters for this system to work. When I built my house it was permitted to also have a shutoff on the discharge of the heater which allows you to work on or replace the heater without depressurizing the water system for the whole house but this may not be permitted under your codes.
If you want to insure that water is drawn from the appropriate heater you can install a valve between the two sides of the house and keep closed normally. Then if one water heater dies you can open the valve and run the house off the other heater. You will need a shutoff valve on the infeed to the water heaters for this system to work. When I built my house it was permitted to also have a shutoff on the discharge of the heater which allows you to work on or replace the heater without depressurizing the water system for the whole house but this may not be permitted under your codes.
#4
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Why do you have two water heaters? Is it a lot of people/usage in the house?
I agree with Pulpo and would measure your pressure and your flow rate from an outside faucet. If you don't have good pressure and/or volume coming into the house, nothing you can do on the inside will help that (other than a booster pump). What size/type pipe do you have coming in from the street? Or are you on a well?
Also, sometimes certain fixtures handle lower pressure and pressure changes better than others, as do newer shower diverters.
I agree with Pulpo and would measure your pressure and your flow rate from an outside faucet. If you don't have good pressure and/or volume coming into the house, nothing you can do on the inside will help that (other than a booster pump). What size/type pipe do you have coming in from the street? Or are you on a well?
Also, sometimes certain fixtures handle lower pressure and pressure changes better than others, as do newer shower diverters.
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i'm on a well
There is a huge bath tub that wasn't getting enough hot water, which is the reason for the second heater. the pressure is fine in the kitchen where the pressure tank is near. One of the big problems is that the back end of the house suffers if another faucet is turned on--the volume is stolen and can't be delivered--if washing hands in master bath and any other faucet in the house is turned on. I thought perhaps a manifold system would solve that problem.
Do you think it would??
It may be a good time to experiment now since I'm planning a major renovation this fall for the master bath--i may be able to find a simpler way to solve the problems.
thanks for your input.
Do you think it would??
It may be a good time to experiment now since I'm planning a major renovation this fall for the master bath--i may be able to find a simpler way to solve the problems.
thanks for your input.
#7
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Pressure is important, but even more important is volume. (gallons per minute). Some houses/areas really only supply enough water to run one shower/faucet at a time. If your supply isn't supplying enough GPM, all the piping in the world can't help.
Find an outside faucet closest to where the water comes into your house. Take a 5 gallon bucket and time how long it takes to fill it.
Divide 5 (gallons) by the number of seconds it took to fill the bucket, and then multiply by 60 (seconds). This gives you the number of gallons of water per minute (GPM).
A 'good' amount is probably around 7-9 GPM. What's yours?
Find an outside faucet closest to where the water comes into your house. Take a 5 gallon bucket and time how long it takes to fill it.
Divide 5 (gallons) by the number of seconds it took to fill the bucket, and then multiply by 60 (seconds). This gives you the number of gallons of water per minute (GPM).
A 'good' amount is probably around 7-9 GPM. What's yours?
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Thanks Zorfdt. I've measured this before, and did again today, I'm at about 6 GPM. There's got to be a solution--do you have any ideas? I would think that moving the one hot water tank and installing another pressure tank at the other end of the house would solve some of the problems with some faucets stealing flow. My primary concern is simply wanting to take a good shower! otherwise, the plumbing is not a big problem. any ideas?
thanks. bb
thanks. bb