External Faucet Woodford Model 17


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Old 07-20-14, 09:39 PM
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External Faucet Woodford Model 17

Hello helpers, I have an external faucet made of Woodford model 17, and it leaks water when I open it. There is no water leakage when shut.

Worse is, the water actually leaked into my basement where the pipe connect to outside. I do not know where exactly the leakage occur, but I do have a couple of pictures to share. Let me know if you need clarifications.

Here's the help I need:
1) I cannot seem to dismantle the wood panel attached behind the faucet. Any idea? The faucet seem dead locked into the wood panel, which in turns sit dead tight in between the vinyl siding. There are 2 screws holding the faucet in place into the wood panel, and I have already removed the screws.

2) I observe a weird thing -- the water is leaked in the direction as seen by the Red arrow in one of the picture. In other words, when I open the faucet, there is a stream of water coming from behind the wood panel and flow to outside!
You think this is a pretty common issue, or a bigger issue is at hand? Can a newbie tackle it by just going to Home Depot and buy a replacement kit?

Thanks!
Sean
 
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  #2  
Old 07-21-14, 12:19 AM
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Your faucet is broken inside the wall, most likely because someone forget to disconnect the hose during freezing weather. The wooden block is either the original siding on the house or else it was placed there to hold the faucet when the vinyl siding was installed. Although you have removed the fastening screws the faucet is still connected to the piping inside, either by a threaded joint, or more commonly by a soldered connection.

You will need to open the wall (or perhaps ceiling in the basement), or enter the dirty nasty crawlspace under the house, whichever applies in your particular situation, and find the connection to the house's plumbing. Hopefully there is another valve inside that will allow you to remove this faucet without turning off the whole house supply. If not, then you will need to turn off the main shut-off to do a replacement.

Here is a picture showing what has happened to your faucet.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]35059[/ATTACH]

Here is another picture showing how the faucet is installed.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]35060[/ATTACH]
 
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Old 07-21-14, 09:12 PM
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Thanks Furd.

You are exactly right! I forgot to disconnect the hose last winter. Did not realize there would be damage even with valve/spigot at off position.

I am attaching the picture here -- the inside of my basement crawlspace where the pipe connect directly to outside. It was again the same setup as your picture, and it comes with separate valve. However, I did not see any continuous water leak around the pipe. Si I would imagine whatever the water leak was, it must occur when I turn on the valve.

So here is the question. Is this as easy as cutting off the copper pipe from the basement, push out that whole pipe and spigot to outside, get a new spigot and re-attach the spigot and copper pipe?

And there seems like 2 sizes of copper pipe, with the spigot directly attached to the thicker size. So I should cut off the copper pipe on the thinner side?

Thanks!
Sean

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Old 07-21-14, 10:12 PM
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Yes, because of the location, you will need to cut the pipe some where between the inside cutoff valve and the connection to the outside valve, taking the damaged portion out.

The way the freeze proof sillcocks work is the sealing surface is inside the home where it never gets to freezing. It also should angle down to the outside so with the sillcock closed (and the hose removed, of course) the water between the seal and the outside of the valve will drain out. New valves will come with a tapered plastic washer to insure it's angled. With the hose attached, it can't drain and looks like it split the valve body.

Normally freeze proof sillcocks are threaded into a female fitting attached to the copper pipe, but I believe they make solder on as well. The threaded are much easier and safer to replace when they fail. A guy here just caused an $8000 fire at his house by catching the framing on fire. BE CAREFUL, and have a helper.

If you get a threaded one, screw it into the fitting tightly, then mark the fitting and the pipe so you can orient the handle on the outside the right direction. Then remove the fitting from the sillcock and solder the fitting.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]35110[/ATTACH]
 
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Last edited by Gunguy45; 07-21-14 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 07-21-14, 11:58 PM
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Gunguy has given you good information. There ARE connectors that can be used that require no soldering.

BTW, the picture you have posted is of an electrical cable that has been "dead ended" with a piece of heat-shrink tubing. I could give more info if you posted the correct picture.
 
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Old 07-22-14, 12:37 AM
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BTW, the picture you have posted is of an electrical cable that has been "dead ended" with a piece of heat-shrink tubing.
Huh? Thats looks like a solder on freeze proof sillcock to me? You can even see the water that sprayed on the wall and is standing on the sill plate.
 
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Old 07-22-14, 01:26 AM
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We must be seeing two different pictures. The one I see has three plastic-jacketed type NM cables starting from the lower left corner. The uppermost cable is an older cloth/asphalt jacketed type NM with a heat-shrink cap. I see NO copper piping anywhere, nor do I see a sill plate.

HAH! I just went down and clicked on the link and I get a completely different picture, one just as you describe, Vic. Get the techs to explain THAT. Further, I have clicked on this thread several times and always got the picture of the type NM cables.

(added) Even after this post refreshing I still get the picture of the cables and not the piping and valve.
 
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Old 07-22-14, 08:40 AM
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Oh...I don't even see a link, I see the picture itself. Maybe its a difference in our security settings or the browser itself?
 
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Old 07-22-14, 12:46 PM
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Thanks Vic and Furd. It seems like there is a weird thing going on this board, that you would see 2 versions of thread and replies, depending if you login or as a guest!

Anyway, my follow up question if you guys don't mind. You mentioned about getting the Threaded Sillcock (which I think it means spigot too?) which is easier to work on. But in the end you also mentioned about soldering it.

1) So in anyway, soldering must be involved, correct?

2) What is a fitting? Is that the female adapter, or some accessory that comes with the sillcock kit installation?

Thanks
 
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Old 07-22-14, 01:32 PM
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A fitting is normally whats permanently installed on a pipe. You can find Sharkbite type connectors that require no soldering, but if there is even basic access to the problem area, I'd solder in a female adapter on the cut end of the pipe, then thread the valve in to it.
 
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Old 07-23-14, 03:32 AM
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Oh...I don't even see a link, I see the picture itself. Maybe its a difference in our security settings or the browser itself?
I see/saw the picture as well although it was obviously a different picture. The link I referred to was in the body of the thread AFTER going to the post response page. Of course NOW the proper picture is posting so it makes me look like an idiot.


sftong, a "fitting" is in this case an adapter that changes the soldered copper piping to a threaded connection. Every frost proof faucet I have seen has a combination end that allows for either a soldered connection OR a threaded connection. I cannot see clearly enough in your picture if you have a fitting that simply changes the size of the copper to allow soldering to your faucet or if it is a threaded adapter. While a properly done soldered connection is best a threaded connection makes replacement at a later time MUCH easier.

There is also the Sharkbite fitting I mentioned that comes in many sizes and configurations. You would want one that had a female thread to match the new faucet and a "slip-on" connection to match the outside diameter of the copper tubing. The faucet comes in several different lengths and to ensure you had enough copper to properly make the Sharkbite connection I would suggest getting a faucet a bit longer than the currently installed model. Be prepared for "sticker shock" as these frost proof faucets are not inexpensive, often going for $40 or more. You need to use a thread sealant on the male thread prior to screwing it to the Sharkbite and while many advocate Teflon tape I prefer to use Teflon paste or a combination of the tape and paste.

Post back if you want more details.
 
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Old 07-23-14, 08:55 AM
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Thanks Furd.

On closer inspection of another picture I just took, it looks like there is a thread on it. so it is a threaded one?

So, please excuse me for my novice skills. Assuming it is threaded, what are the simplest steps for me to remove and get the whole thing good again? I don't mind the unit cost.

1) Do I just "unscrew" the thread pipe by hand? Then just push the pipe out to outside? I have a copper pipe cutter, and if I do cut it, do I cut it on the smaller side of pipe?

2) Buy a threaded Woodfoord Model 17 with same copper pipe diameter? does it come with manual of how to do the re-attach job? I think I can check with Lowes/Home Depot pros on this.

3) I believe I have solder with the small gas heater tank at home. Do I still need them?

Thanks
Sean
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Old 07-23-14, 09:46 AM
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hi sf -


I’m no plumber but I put in a frost-free (or maybe 2? forget, lol). My task was similar to yours. I think what your picture shows is that your current installation used the solder option. In other words the thread that you see is your picture is actually the end part of the frost-free sillcock – like the end of the one in this picture:

(roll your mouse over the picture and you can see the threads)

Homewerks Worldwide 3/4 in. x 8 in. Brass MPT x MHT Anti-Siphon Sillcock Valve-VFQASPG15B at The Home Depot

Optionally yours could have been screwed into a female adapter that had been soldered onto a copper pipe – like this adapter:

WP3-06 - Cello WP3-06 - 3/8" Copper x Female Adapter

That is, there is the option, rather than screwing the frost-free into a female adapter soldered on the end of a copper pipe, to instead push a copper pipe into the end of frost-free (i.e., inside the threaded end) and solder it. That was the option that was used in your current installation.

So, unless I’m seeing this wrong, it looks like you are going to have a soldering job to do. You can solder on a female adapter and thus in the future it will be easier to remove, you would just unscrew it (i.e, unscrew the frost-free), or you can solder the new frost-free right on to the copper pipe – as you currently have.

I think the other guys will pipe in if that is wrong (my eyesight is not great, lol)

If you look at this, I think you have what is identified as CP3 inlet and the “Female Sweat” option was used – I think.

Woodford Model 17 Freezeless Faucet
 
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Old 07-24-14, 09:22 AM
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sf if you really don’t want to solder I think this adapter would work.

U088LF - Cash-Acme U088LF - 3/4" Sharkbite x Female Adapter (Lead Free)

You would screw your new sillcock into the threaded end of the adapter and the other end of the adapter would be pushed onto the end of the copper pipe.

You would just need to make sure you cut the pipe square, which isn’t very difficult with the little tubing cutters (link below) you can get at Home Depot, etc. and of course you would just have to also make sure you cut the pipe at the right spot to get the required length so the sillcock fits up against the house properly.

RIDGID 104 Tubing Cutter-32985 at The Home Depot

Seems like sharkbites have a pretty good record. I’ve used them in my house for several years now with no problems.
 
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Old 07-25-14, 09:41 AM
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Thanks A lot ZoesDad.

The more I think about this, the more tricky it seems. I have the gas torch for soldering, plus the little cutter you shown. I did the kitchen copper pipe once, but that was easy as to cut and put in an adapter for 2 pipes to join and then solder them.

This one need length adjustment, and position of the spigot too. I would probably subcontract it out for about $120 total.

Thanks!
Sean
 
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Old 07-25-14, 06:29 PM
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Good luck sf with the job!
 
 

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