How to 'sleeve' sewer line through foundation wall
#1
04-11-15, 06:34 PM
How to 'sleeve' sewer line through foundation wall
I'm asking questions for a change!
The cast iron is rusted out where it enters the foundation wall. I've got it temporarily patched up.
I understand that to bring this 60 year old home up to code that I need to 'sleeve' the pipe where it passes through.
So I need to bust out the old pipe, get a piece of 6" PVC, make the hole bigger, and grout it in with hydraulic cement.
OK so far...
But what to seal the annular space between the 4" and the 6" ? I don't think 'Great Stuff' would be the greatest for this... or would it?
Polyurea caulk? (won't that 'attack' the PVC?)
A 6" to 4" Fernco boot around the outside? (this is the direction I'm leaning... is it the best choice?)
OR, should I just say hellwithit and put the 4" PVC in and hydraulic cement around that?
Here's two more pics of the pipe in the crawlspace. There's already 4" PVC tee cut in for the newer bath upstairs, so I can just knock out the whole length of CI and go PVC all the way out.
The BIGGER PROBLEM though is this:
The PVC from the newer septic tank is pretty misaligned with the old pipe. Not only horizontally, but also vertically. That CI 45 ell is actually turned DOWN a few degrees. I'm afraid I'm going to have to trench the line to the septic (not too bad, only about ten feet, and about two feet deep) in order to line up the pipes.
Anybody have any other ideas? I don't wanna dig if I don't have to!
The cast iron is rusted out where it enters the foundation wall. I've got it temporarily patched up.
I understand that to bring this 60 year old home up to code that I need to 'sleeve' the pipe where it passes through.
So I need to bust out the old pipe, get a piece of 6" PVC, make the hole bigger, and grout it in with hydraulic cement.
OK so far...
But what to seal the annular space between the 4" and the 6" ? I don't think 'Great Stuff' would be the greatest for this... or would it?
Polyurea caulk? (won't that 'attack' the PVC?)
A 6" to 4" Fernco boot around the outside? (this is the direction I'm leaning... is it the best choice?)
OR, should I just say hellwithit and put the 4" PVC in and hydraulic cement around that?
Here's two more pics of the pipe in the crawlspace. There's already 4" PVC tee cut in for the newer bath upstairs, so I can just knock out the whole length of CI and go PVC all the way out.
The BIGGER PROBLEM though is this:
The PVC from the newer septic tank is pretty misaligned with the old pipe. Not only horizontally, but also vertically. That CI 45 ell is actually turned DOWN a few degrees. I'm afraid I'm going to have to trench the line to the septic (not too bad, only about ten feet, and about two feet deep) in order to line up the pipes.
Anybody have any other ideas? I don't wanna dig if I don't have to!
#2
04-11-15, 06:43 PM
Member
Replace it with 4" PVC, add a clean out before it goes through the wall, use hydrolic cement.
No sleeve needed.
No sleeve needed.
#3
04-11-15, 07:43 PM
And to correct the misalignment? It's off by about 10° or so.
I'm pretty sure I'll need to dig up the line back to the tank, being that the PVC is about an inch lower than the CI.
Why would I need another cleanout before it goes outside? The one in the pic is only about 2' away.
There's a cleanout upstream also.
No sleeve? You're saying to ignore the code?
I'm pretty sure I'll need to dig up the line back to the tank, being that the PVC is about an inch lower than the CI.
Why would I need another cleanout before it goes outside? The one in the pic is only about 2' away.
There's a cleanout upstream also.
No sleeve? You're saying to ignore the code?
#4
04-11-15, 08:00 PM
Here's another shot with some pretty colored lines that show the angular misalignment.
Remember that there is also VERTICAL misalignment as well.
I imagine that a Fernco coupling could adjust for the angle, the one that's there is doing that now, but the vertical I don't think so. I really need a young person that likes to dig trenches...
Remember that there is also VERTICAL misalignment as well.
I imagine that a Fernco coupling could adjust for the angle, the one that's there is doing that now, but the vertical I don't think so. I really need a young person that likes to dig trenches...
#5
04-13-15, 10:33 AM
Could you adjust the alignment by making a new hole in the foundation 3 or 4 inches to the right? Connect the PVC with the correct alignment through the house, then correct any offset once it's in the crawlspace with a pair of 22deg elbows? Then patch the whole thing with hydraulic cement as Joe mentioned. You're already going to have to patch around the hole, patching another few inches doesn't seem like that much more work.
#6
04-13-15, 11:06 AM
Group Moderator
In my area a sleeve is required where the line passes through the foundation. I generally use a short section of 6" PVC which I mortar into the wall. Then run the drain line through and use some spray foam in the center area then to act as a back stop for a 1" or so thick layer of mortar. If you need more free space to make it easier to align your drain pipe go to a larger diameter sleeve.
Whenever driving around town I keep an eye out for commercial or municipal work sites where they are working with larger diameter pipe. They usually have short cut offs that will end up in the garbage so they don't mind giving it away. Since I so rarely need 6 or 8" diameter pipe it's preferable to buying a 10' stick that will collect dust for years.
Whenever driving around town I keep an eye out for commercial or municipal work sites where they are working with larger diameter pipe. They usually have short cut offs that will end up in the garbage so they don't mind giving it away. Since I so rarely need 6 or 8" diameter pipe it's preferable to buying a 10' stick that will collect dust for years.
#7
04-13-15, 11:41 AM
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
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I see that Pilot has advised you on how to install the sleeve. I would probably not use the expanding foam but instead pack the annular space with oakum or rope or even rags. I would not add any mortar or hydraulic cement because the purpose of the sleeve is to allow minute movement in the pipe to allow for expansion/contraction as well as slight settling of the foundation wall or the pipe itself. If you are worried about ground water leaking through then you can patch it on the outside with some foundation waterproofing or even roofing tar.
#8
04-13-15, 03:46 PM
Thanks guys!
I don't know if moving to the right is going to get me a 45° angle. I believe that moving the PVC from the tank would though. The pipe goes through a neoprene seal at the tank and I'm sure exposing the pipe will allow me to move that over a bit to get the angle I need. It's less than 10 feet to the tank and only about 2 feet deep...
Sleeve is required here also, but building dept told me I don't need permit for repairs, so they won't be inspecting.
Still, I like bringing old work up to code so I'm going to sleeve it with the 6", that's a given, I can make adjustments there also.
Problem is gonna be finding a short section of 6". I don't wanna buy a big stick, I'll NEVER need it again. (famous last words)
I have Oakum, so will use that in between, plus probably a 4" to 6" Fernco and that should take care of water seepage. And yes, roofing tar all around it too.
I don't know if moving to the right is going to get me a 45° angle. I believe that moving the PVC from the tank would though. The pipe goes through a neoprene seal at the tank and I'm sure exposing the pipe will allow me to move that over a bit to get the angle I need. It's less than 10 feet to the tank and only about 2 feet deep...
Sleeve is required here also, but building dept told me I don't need permit for repairs, so they won't be inspecting.
Still, I like bringing old work up to code so I'm going to sleeve it with the 6", that's a given, I can make adjustments there also.
Problem is gonna be finding a short section of 6". I don't wanna buy a big stick, I'll NEVER need it again. (famous last words)
I have Oakum, so will use that in between, plus probably a 4" to 6" Fernco and that should take care of water seepage. And yes, roofing tar all around it too.
#9
04-13-15, 03:59 PM
Super Moderator
Did you not like what the person said when he came out to look???
$$$$
If you want to dig the 8 ft to straighten it, its up to you.
A sleeve may cause water infiltration. Ill have to read the code on that as I assumed for water pipe.
I would take the pvc from outside and replace it all. I would probably put a 2 way c/o outside just incase.
Then with all PVC you can use the proper no hubs. That fernco on the hub is frighting...
Im in PA all this week. If I wasnt I would swing by. Weekend I have one day saturday as other days are booked...
$$$$If you want to dig the 8 ft to straighten it, its up to you.
A sleeve may cause water infiltration. Ill have to read the code on that as I assumed for water pipe.
I would take the pvc from outside and replace it all. I would probably put a 2 way c/o outside just incase.
Then with all PVC you can use the proper no hubs. That fernco on the hub is frighting...
Im in PA all this week. If I wasnt I would swing by. Weekend I have one day saturday as other days are booked...
#10
04-13-15, 05:33 PM
I wrote that before I talked to the guy this evening.
He gave me what I thought was a fair price and I took the hook, so the point is moot now.
He's doing the job Wednesday.
Yes, it sure is. It's about ready to pop off on the bottom, and roots were already starting to work their way in ... that's only been on there 3 years.
He gave me what I thought was a fair price and I took the hook, so the point is moot now.
He's doing the job Wednesday.
That fernco on the hub is frighting...
