Slow toilet drain after thunder storm


  #1  
Old 06-29-15, 01:34 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 111
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Slow toilet drain after thunder storm

I have a rental small home that the tenants report after a thunder storm - where we get several inches of rain in a short period of time, the toilet is slow to flush. All other drains do not show any slowness just the toilet. After a day or two it clears up but with the next thunder storm the toilet is slow again.

The home has a single bath that has a toilet, one sink, a shower, and a washing machine hookup. From there the main drain goes about 8 feet to the kitchen where there is a sink (with dishwasher) then the drain goes out of the house to a septic holding tank and then to the septic field. The home has one vent stack through the roof. I think it is a 3" stack.

I hope someone can offer a cause for this and a solution. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
  #2  
Old 06-29-15, 03:31 PM
J
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4,463
Received 128 Upvotes on 113 Posts
Sure sounds like a failing leach field.
 
  #3  
Old 06-29-15, 03:33 PM
P
Temporarily Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 10,265
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Obviously, it's not the thunder. If anything, it's just the rain. Since all the fixtures, in the house eventually go to the main drain, it's strange that only the toilet would be affected.

The only thing that I can think of is that there is a crossover between the sewer line & storm drains. There have been other posts that point to a similar problem. Finding the crossover is not easy. What I would do is try to find the original plumbing plan. It could be on file with the building dept.
 
  #4  
Old 06-29-15, 04:20 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 111
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
joecaption,

Thank you for your reply. Can you explain what makes you think the leach field is failing. To me it seems like the large concrete holding tanks would take the immediate drain from the toilet flush. The holding tanks have an alarm system which have not indicated that they are running full.
 
  #5  
Old 06-29-15, 04:25 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 111
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Pulpo,

Yes, I had the same thought about only the toilet being slow.

This home is out in the country. There are no storm drains. only the one sewer line that comes out of the home, goes about 30' into the two holding tanks and then the holding tank feed into the drain field.
 
  #6  
Old 06-29-15, 04:39 PM
P
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 27,592
Received 2,144 Upvotes on 1,920 Posts
I'm with Joe on this one. It sounds like the leach field is getting water logged and unable to accept the waste as quickly as when things are dryer. Toilets are often the canary in the coal mine as their big surge of water tests the ability of the drains.

You said tanks (plural) and alarm system. Please describe the system you have as it's not a traditional/simple gravity system.

Is the alarm system functioning? Have you actually tested it? I don't mean just pressing the test button on a control box but actually fill the pump tank to the alarm level or manually tip the alarm float.
 
  #7  
Old 06-29-15, 04:39 PM
P
Temporarily Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 10,265
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
The toilet throws more water, to the "drain field" than the other fixtures. Personally, I don't know anything about "drain fields". Sewers are supposed to go to recycling plants. A "drain field" sounds like what I would call a storm drain. While you say that there are no storm drains, I think that it is something similar.
 
  #8  
Old 06-29-15, 06:48 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 111
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Pilot Dane,

Thanks for your comments. I'll try to answer your questions.

The sewer line leaves the foundation and goes to a concrete tank that is about 40" in diameter. Next to it is another concrete tank of similar diameter. I have never removed the lids to see how deep they are. The lids are just just above ground level.

My general understanding is that the grey water goes into the the concrete tanks and then is fed into the leach field. Not positive, but I assumed there was a pump in one or both of the tanks to get the grey water to the field. The field is either at the same level or maybe slightly higher than the tanks. Thus, the possible need for a pump.

I assume that these tanks serve the same general purpose as the under ground septic tanks in a more conventional gravity fed septic system. Except they do not gravity feed into the distribution box and the field.

I have not tested the alarm system and probably should do so. To more fully answer your questions it would appear that I need to do more investigation of this system and its functionality.

If this is a pump system, does that change your thoughts on this? Thanks again.
 
  #9  
Old 06-29-15, 06:51 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 111
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Pulpo,

No public sewer just a septic field.
 
  #10  
Old 06-30-15, 04:39 AM
P
Temporarily Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 10,265
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
It sounds like everything is going to the same place, rain water & sewer water. If that's the case, it's understandable that one would affect the other. I don't think that the solution is on your property.
 
  #11  
Old 06-30-15, 09:16 AM
P
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 27,592
Received 2,144 Upvotes on 1,920 Posts
It's impossible to provide much advice until you find what you've got. You mention where the gray water goes. Do you know where the black (toilet poo water) water goes? Then you mention there was (past tense) a pump or pumps but you didn't mention seeing any pumps and previously mentioned an alarm system. You can check with your local health or environmental services dept or whoever has jurisdiction over septic/sewage systems and see if they have a record of what was installed. It's rarely 100% accurate but it's a good place to start.
 
  #12  
Old 06-30-15, 09:26 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 111
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I will investigate further as to exactly what the configuration is and report back. Thank you.
 
  #13  
Old 06-30-15, 06:38 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 111
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Pilot Dane,

When I used the term grey water I was referring to all waste water from the home. I confirmed that there are two round tanks with the first one taking the waste water from the home. From there the liquid is transfer over to the second tank which has a pump that pumps it to the leach field when the second tank reaches a certain level of liquid waste water. I am assuming the solids must stay in the first tank to break down.

I pulled the lids off both tanks and discovered that I could not see the pipe coming from house nor the pipe that transfers the liquid to the second tank. So, I could not see the input or the output pipes in the first tank. Also, same thing with the second tank. I could not see the input pipe that comes from the first tank nor could I see where the pump discharges the liquid out of the second tank (not sure I should be able to see that pipe).

Therefore, it would seem to me, that I have an issue with the the sewage passing through these tanks. It would seem that the liquid is not moving from the first tank to the second tank and is backing up the pipe that is coming from the house.

I also think I may be getting rain water into the first tank which would explain why the toilet is noticeably slow after it rains as the rain water is filling the first tank faster than it can transfer over the to the second tank.

Do any of my conclusions make sense? Am I barking up the right tree? Thanks for any and all thoughts on this.
 
  #14  
Old 06-30-15, 07:03 PM
P
Temporarily Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 10,265
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I also think I may be getting rain water into the first tank which would explain why the toilet is noticeably slow after it rains as the rain water is filling the first tank faster than it can transfer over the to the second tank.
That's the only conclusion that makes sense to me. As I said before, the sewer water & rain are going to the same place. An umbrella might be in order but it would have to be an umbrella from one of those frankfurter carts. Maybe Sabrett. JK
 
  #15  
Old 07-01-15, 05:22 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 111
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Pulpo,

Keeping the rain water out is easy as compared to figuring out where the slow down is occurring that is causing the sewage to be so high in the tanks that I can not see the pipes that feed the tanks.
 
  #16  
Old 07-01-15, 05:47 AM
P
Temporarily Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 10,265
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
In my opinion, the rain water is what's causing the slow down. In other words, the slow down is occurring at that tanks. The tanks can't handle both sources, of water. If the problem were in the pipes, the toilet would be slow all the time. Does that make sense?
 
  #17  
Old 07-01-15, 05:50 AM
P
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 27,592
Received 2,144 Upvotes on 1,920 Posts
You probably have rectangular septic and pump tanks. Most of them, especially septic tanks have two access holes in the top and there is usually a baffle between the two ends of the tank so you can't see everything from one access hatch.

Depending on the age of your system you may have a filter on the outlet of the septic tank. These can become clogged or partially clogged which can be slowing the flow into the pump tank. Luckily the filters are designed to be removed and cleaned. The hard part is you may have to dig a hole to find the access for the other half of your septic tank.

Have you verified that the pump in the pump tank and it's alarm are working properly? Do you have a control box somewhere for the pump and alarm?

Pump tanks are often used in one of two scenarios. One is when the leach field is uphill and the effluent must be pumped. If the pump doesn't work effluent can't leave the pump tank and the system backs up and you really know it. The second situation is with marginal soil conditions. The pump isn't there to move the waste uphill but is part of a system that equally distributes it through the leach field. With that type it is possible for the pump to fail and everything limps along in gravity mode when things are good. When you get a lot of rain then the gravity flow can't fight the groundwater and you get a backup.
 
  #18  
Old 07-01-15, 06:43 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 111
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Pilot Dane,

There are two tanks, both round, both with lids above ground. They are about 3 feet from each other. The pump is in the second tank. The leach field is a little higher than the line coming from the house so I have assumed the pump system is to move the waste water to the leach field. Do you believe that the pump is moving the liquid to an under ground septic tank?

I have not tried to cycle the pump on as I could not see the float or any of the pipes that feed the tanks as the sewage levels was too high, but not so high that it is backing up into the house. Could gravity be slowly taking the sewage from the tanks out to the leach field?
 
  #19  
Old 07-01-15, 06:52 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,988
Received 84 Upvotes on 76 Posts
Its a pumped system... OK..

If it rains its possible the field is failing and rain water is coming into the second tank back from the field... ( The pump may be cycling)

When was the last time you had the tanks pumped?? If they are full of solids then you are just doing more damage to the field.. It will cost you lots of $$$ to replace that field..

Have the two tanks pumped ASAP. Take pics and let us know what the pumper guy says about your system...

Hard to restore a field but it can be done...
 
  #20  
Old 07-01-15, 07:36 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 111
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
lawrosa,

Thank you for your comments. I have called a septic contractor that I have used in other situations. As soon as I know when he can come out, I am going to schedule at the same time to have the two tanks pumped out so that a full assessment can be done.

I think rain water is getting into the first tank as the tenants have done some landscaping and raised the soil level around that first tank. When I had the lid removed it looked like there was staining from rain water coming in on one side of the tank. The side where the soil level had been raised. I'm going to cut that soil level back down today. I think the additional volume of the rain water in the tank has exacerbated an already existing problem.
 
  #21  
Old 07-06-15, 12:00 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 111
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thought I would post a follow up. Got it all working again. Needed a new pump and to move the two electrical boxes outside the tank and redo all the connections. One of the two electrical boxes was a GFCI outlet (how was that ever considered an acceptable way to power the pump??) that had the 120V pump plugged into it. Everything was totally corroded up and had shorted out the pump. Pump had run hot causing the motor seal to fail which allowed the pump to dump all the internal lubricating oil.

The second box was for the control wiring and the corrosion with it was just as bad as the other one. Wires all corroded under the insulation. Both boxes had enough moisture to pool inside the box.

Now the new pump is hard wired along with the control cables in a water proof electrical box outside the tank with the conduit that carries the wires into the tank sealed to keep the gases and moisture out of the box.

Thanks to all for helping out.
 
  #22  
Old 07-06-15, 12:48 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 15,988
Received 84 Upvotes on 76 Posts
Thank you for posting the outcome...

Im glad it worked out...
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: