Forgive me. I was an English major and tend to accidentally do long posts. You have been warned.

I live with my roommate in a 2 story house built back in 1941. A while ago the biggest of my 2 1/2 bathrooms started leaking into the kitchen below. My dad and I hired a plumber to come in to fix the leak. They took out the ceiling in the kitchen and replaced all the pipes, but that hasn't stopped the leak. We have determined it's not the new pipes leaking. The water is now leaking through the floor and is isolated to just the shower. My "big bathroom" has a large section where the toilet, sink, and bathtub are located and a separate closet style shower as another section. I hope that makes sense to you guys. Our plumber recommended another person who specializes in tile to help with the new leak. He came in and determined the old cracked tiles were indeed the culprits. Dad, who is paying because I don't make enough money to do anything other than pay bills, had his heart set on one of those Bathroom Fitters. I'd rather stick with tile. I'm skeptical about the Band-Aid approach of the Bathroom Fitters, so I inquired about cost effective alternatives to that and to completely, and expensively, retiling the bathroom. The "tile specialist" suggested a spray sealant. We also discussed panels, which he said would probably cost about the same as re-tiling. I like to know what I'm dealing with. I don't like being blindsided, so I took it upon myself to do extensive research on bathroom building techniques from the 1940s and what's done differently today so I could have an intelligent conversation with both this guy and my dad about the topic and actually know what's going on. Many people have now told me I've done so much research I probably know about as much as this guy does at least in theory.

Well, I turned Dad. He accepted the spray sealant approach and ditched the Bathroom Fitters idea. I informed the contractor that this is the approach we wanted to take and he said he would get back to me with an estimate. A week later I asked him if he'd forgotten about me, he said he was still figuring things out. Two weeks later, I asked him if he was too busy if he could recommend someone else and he did one of my biggest pet peeves. The "Silly woman tricks are for kids" patronizing laugh really grates on my nerves. It makes me do stupid things like try to do it myself. The contractor said he wasn't comfortable with the sealant method because it's a temporary solution. Then why did you suggest it before? He, then, suggested the panel idea, which before he said would cost about the same amount as tile. Dad has already said we don't have the money to retile the bathroom. Needless to say, I haven't heard from the tile guy since.

Now, eventually I would like to completely redo the bathroom with new paint, new tile, new fixtures and, if I can, a more energy efficient window. Looking up from the kitchen, I don't see any significant water damage from the wood sub-structure framing, nor any signs of mold. Right now, my main concern is the shower only. Would I be able to remove the tile and expose the wet-bed in the shower and leave the rest of the bathroom for a later date, or would I have to do the whole thing all at once? Would a spray sealant be a decent temporary fix to get Dad's involvement out of the way at the very least, so I'm free to dig in myself later? The tile guy said the glaze on the tile would make it impossible to get the sealant to stick. Wouldn't texturizing the surface of the tile with, say a file, help the sealant to stick better? Dad also mentioned the most expensive thing with redoing the tile in a bathroom is installing a layer of stone slate to support the waterproofing under the tile, but I have a book copyrighted 2011 that has no mention of stone slate as one of these under tile support layers. Does that mean society has developed more cost effective alternatives to the 1980s stone slate layer Dad is referring to? Is there any other information anyone can give me regarding this dilemma? I just want to get this done. It's been over year since we removed the ceiling in the kitchen and I'm ready to be done. Thank you in advance for reading my long and probably confusing post, and thank you for any information I can get.

 

Hey Sarina, welcome to the forums we are glad you took the time to join!

Pictures in this case will tell a big story. Here is how to upload them. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...your-post.html Keep in mind that pics need to be scaled down to web quality and upload one at at time.
I suspect we can help, forget about bathfitters and I have never heard of a spray on sealant unless you are a watcher of late night infomercials. Get us some pictures and we will begin the journey there.

 

I'm pretty good at finding & fixing leaks but I met my match on one of those mud jobs that you are describing. Post the pics as CZ suggested. It might be time for that redo.

 

Great! Thank you for responding so fast! My roommate is awesome at taking pictures and she has a photo editor on her computer that she's itching to try. She gets off work at 4-ish and I will have her do her magic! Could you give me more detailed suggestions of what pictures would be most helpful so we're not uploading things we don't need to get this job done?

 

Forget about the spray sealant, not going to work.
Cracked tiles, missing grout, is almost always a sign of tile installed over sheetrock, a huge no no and always fails.
I've never seen slate used under tile and would never suggest doing so.
That Bathfitters is a scam, they come in and install a paper thin glued on enclosure that could be bought at any Box store for about $300.00 or less and charge about $3000.00 for one days work.
For that price you could likely have all new tile and new fixtures.

 

One clear picture facing the tub should be all that's needed.

 

Oh and the quick sealant idea was always just a temp fix for me to get Dad out of the picture so I could redo the bathroom myself without him interfering. My Dad has control issues. He's a civil engineer and practical to a fault. He's also in his 80s, so he's not taking any risks any more and tends to go the easy route now. I scare him. I don't mind getting dirty or taking risks or doing it the hard way if it means doing it right. I'm also very creative, so I tend to think in abstracts then turn those abstracts into something more concrete once I determine the plausibility of a project. It's very scary for him and he tends to freak out despite the fact that I'm 37 and I'm more than capable of doing things. So the sealant idea was just to satisfy the father.

Me: "Look Dad! It's done!" "Is he gone? Get the sledge hammer."

Dad always insists on hiring his people. His contractor charges $800 just to show up and assess the situation. My roommate recently determined just how much of an overcharge that is, so that makes me even more interested in learning how to do my own remodeling and repair. So, thank you for responding so quickly and I really look forward to any information and instruction I can get from you guys.

 

My roommate says her photo editing program can't scale to size, so I just decided to do it on my phone myself. This is a shot of the bathroom from me standing in the hallway looking into the room. As you can see, the shower is a "closet" inside the wall on the left side of back wall of the room. A window is kitty corner to the left of the shower. The tub is separate laying long-wise against the right wall. In front of the tub along the right wall to the right of the hall door is the sink. Unseen behind the open door is the toilet against the front wall on the left side of the bathroom. That's the basic layout of the room.

 

This is a picture from just outside the shower featuring the upper part of the border around the door. One of the reasons I loved this house was actually the neat wave design of the tile border in this bathroom. I just thought it was cool. After living here since 2008, however, I'm ready to get rid of the old tile and change the look.

 

This is another shot from just outside the shower stall, but a better view of the lower half of the door. As you can see, there's a tiled lip you have to step over to get into the shower. These tiles are cracked and weathered and I have no idea how old that door is.

 

This is a closer look at the floor inside the shower stall. The cracks in the tile, mostly, are actually on the wall near the floor. To show both the plumber and the tile guy the leak into the kitchen, I had to literally put on a bathing suit, hop in the running shower and jump around to get it to leak on cue. Other than that, we haven't used the shower since it started leaking. My roommate and I have been sharing my master bath which is significantly smaller that this bathroom.

 

This a picture of the plumbing in the kitchen ceiling directly underneath the bathroom. In the kitchen, I'm facing the exterior wall which upstairs would be facing in the direction of the shower.

 

This is another shot of the kitchen ceiling. I'm facing the same direction, but it's the other side of the hole allowing access to the bathroom plumbing. Those are all the pictures I took. Are there any others you would like to see? Or is that enough detail to get started?

 

Give me a close up of the cracked tiles on the wall, the cracked tiles on the curb under the door, and a look at the service knobs of the shower, and I want you to inspect the following. Look in the corners of the shower where one wall meets another wall. Poke at it with a knife, is it soft like caulking or hard as a rock like grout? All those things could prove worthy candidates for leaks.

Other things to consider. Is the curb sloped back toward the shower? Is there a weatherstrip piece on the bottom of the door that prevents water from splashing outside? Your door does not have a bottom threshold as I would have suspected. Close the door and see if the bottom seals.

 

Okay. I took pictures all around the walls on the floor and each of the corners. I also took a picture of the inside bottom of the door. There is no weather stripping or seal on the bottom of the door. Some of the tiles appear bubbled up from the wall surface. The grout looks brown and porous in places. There is almost a continuous crack all along the bottom of the wall around the perimeter of the floor if you can see it.

 

Even the most basic free photo editing program can scale to size. What the heck is she using? I think she just didn't want to do it.

 

One last picture at this time, show me the floor tiles directly in front of the door on the outside of the shower. Are there any cracks there? Where the floor meets the wall in front of the shower door.

 

Pictures of the tile outside the shower door as asked. The tiles look like they've seen better days, but the inside of the shower is worse in my opinion.

 

To help visualize, here is a bathroom from a early 60's that I remodeled. This was after removing all the tile and cement on the wall. What is left is called a shower pan. In this case, and probably similar to yours it is made of lead. It goes a couple of inches up the walls to create a bowl that captures the water and channels it toward the drain. So, even though all your tiles are cracked down near the bottom row of the shower, it should not be a cause of a leak as this is inside the confines of the shower pan.



Of interest in this picture is in the curb area. You will note that the pan DOES NOT go up and over he curb, so that area is vulnerable to water infiltration issues. That is why I wanted you to give some pictures of the curb, both sides and top. The lack of any kind of weather stripping on the door and lack of a threshold to channel water back to the shower is also very suspect.

Perform a Flood Test
I would also like to have you or find some one that can perform a drain test. For the test, you will need a 2" test plug and a leader hose. If you go to the parts desk at a plumbing supply house, they will sell you one for around $25. It is an inflatable bladder and an air hose that allows you to put the bladder down into the drain, blow it up and then fill the shower with 2 inches or so of water. If the drain or the pan is defective, it will leak below. You can research this by searching for shower flood test. It is required of all new shower builds to make sure the drain is water tight before installing the tile. Shower drain bodies are built like a rain within a drain. One drain is the one you see from above, there is another drain that captures water that gets through the grout and down to the pan underneath the tile. Flood tests check the validity of the seal under where you can't see.

Add Weather Stripping to Door

Feel along the bottom of the shower door itself. You should feel a small groove. That groove is designed to accept a clear flexible piece of plastic that will drag on the curb and seal it so water can not get past it. You can find these in box stores, so ask an associate for a shower door bottom gasket. Make note of the shape of the groove in the door to save multiple trips.

Re-Grout as needed

Go to the tile and get a small box of unsanded white grout. Don't get the ready mixed kind, get the kind that is in a powder. Also pick up a cheap bucket, a small grout float, a large tile sponge. Mix a small amount of grout in a pan with some water until it is like peanut butter. Use the grout float to smear the grout into all the spaces that the grout is missing. An example is the outside of the curb where the cap tile meets the wall tile. The thin grout line is completely missing grout. After smearing it in, use a lot of clean water and your sponge to wipe all the grout from the tile, leaving it only in the grout lines. You can do lots of research on grouting on YouTube.

Re-Caulking

Once all the grout is dry (72 hours). You need to seal the shower. Places to seal are in all corners where one wall meets another wall and where the curb meets the wall. If you are not skilled at caulking, I would recommend that you get Dap Clear Adhesive Kitchen and Bath Caulk. It comes in a tube like toothpaste. You cut a small bit off the end at a 45 degree angle. Cut as little of the tip as possible. Squeeze the caulk into the corners, wet your finger and then drag to smooth the caulking out. Have a rag handy to clean your finger. Again, YouTube is your friend.

Long Winded, but these are the steps to try first to see if you can stop the leak. If you get an immediate fail on the flood test, then you have little recourse than to begin talking about a re-built. My hope is that the above will buy you some time until you can afford a remodel. Good Luck and keep us posted.

 

Wow! I think this is the first time I have ever actually gotten sound practical advice without any patronizing lip or fear-filled yelling accompanying it! I'm marking this down on the calendar! I have shared the info with my roommate and we will be bugging the hell out of Home Depot this week! Thank you so much for the advice and I will get back to you once I've done everything listed in your post! Where has this web site been all my life! I don't have to brave the family lecturing and screaming in fear when I ask for advice anymore!!! You just made my month!! Best birthday gift ever!!!!

 

Happy to help and glad you feel you have a manageable game plan.

I don't think that Home Depot carries the drain test balloons. Thats why I said look to a plumbing supply house. Here is a picture of what you want to get. You want the blue hose along with the fatter of the two bladders attached to the end. Make sure it is for 2" drain, the thinner one is for 1 1/2" drains. You will need a bicycle pump to blow them up. Drop the bladder as far into the drain as it can go, blow it up and then pour buckets of water into the shower and let it sit overnight. Watch for leaks.

 

So it's been a while since I asked for help with this project and I thought I'd give an update since I still need help. Before I start, keep in mind I have ADD and everything I do takes an enormous amount of time longer than it should. I'm still just learning how to actually own my symptoms instead of them owning me. Something that would take a normal person with no experience several days to accomplish, may take me months to years to accomplish. Please keep in mind despite how long it takes me to do something, I never forget it's there...I don't just toss it aside...I do in fact stress over it and research it and analyze it for the entire time it takes me to actually accomplish it.

That said the bathroom still isn't fixed. Dad and I had a big fight over it around my birthday back in April. Then a bunch of other family drama and financial drama happened that took priority over the project. In any case, I'm done tip-toeing around Dad's ego and I'm done with Band-Aid temporary fixes. In the fight, Dad mentioned that my shower in this bathroom probably doesn't even have a shower pan. I deliberated over this for quite a while and decided I really don't mind my roommate sharing my master bathroom with me for an indeterminate amount of time. I'm doing a full remodel instead of a temporary fix.

I figure it'll be more cost effective for me to plan very well before hand, then hoard materials until I have everything I need to remodel the bathroom. In fact, I think if I can successfully pull this off, I think that will be my approach for every room in my house.

I've mentioned that my house does not get along with the element of water. Recently, my garbage disposal in my kitchen sink started leaking. I've been fixing that and I'm very proud to say that it's almost fixed. I'm also very pleased to say that I've been enjoying fixing it. It's taken me almost a month so far, but it's like a really frustrating puzzle. I get to a point where I start cussing and I have to put it down for a few days and do some more research before trying again, but every time I work on it I learn something and get a step closer to getting it right. Finally, something to get my brain working so I'm not on auto pilot anymore!

Venting aside, I'm trying to plan for the remodel but I'm finding I'm unsure of how to start. I'd like some advice on measurement taking, math (very rusty with my math) and drawing up plans...if drawing up plans on paper is a thing? I'd like to plan as much as I can as accurately as I can and make a list of materials with their amounts needed and approximate costs. I know I won't be able to get everything now since I'm not sure what kind of repair will be needed once I "demolition" everything. I have inspirational pictures and I have a tentative idea of the look I want, but how to figure out what I need to pull it off is a bit of a mystery. Any advice would help. Sorry for the long novel of a post. Thanks for reading and responding.