Slip joint leak


  #1  
Old 12-22-16, 04:09 PM
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Slip joint leak

The slip joint between the elbow of a garbage disposal and a trap started leaking recently. I thought it was an easy fix. I disconnected them, did not see anything wrong. I thought it might be the aging of the washer. I bought a new washer, reconnected them, and leak became worse. The leak came out from the top of the nut. I am wondering if any one could offer a tip on finding the culprit of the leak.
Attached are two pictures:
1. The trap part.
2. The elbow part with a new washer.

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  #2  
Old 12-22-16, 04:23 PM
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Show us a picture of all the drain connections connected under the sink and show or tell us where the leak is.
 
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Old 12-22-16, 04:55 PM
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Thanks a lot for trying to lend a hand here. Attached are two pictures per your request:
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Old 12-22-16, 05:28 PM
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My guess is that it is could be an alignment issue if they don't slip together easily, with stress on the joint forcing the compression ring out of round... compromising the seal. Or, judging by the looks of that nut, its possible that the nut has been over tightened one too many times. Or both.

Try a new compression nut, it will not need a separate ring if your get the right kind.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-1-2-in-...D112/1003457812
 
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Old 12-22-16, 06:01 PM
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As Xsleeper said likely an alignment issue.
I'd cut that mess off about an 1" from the wall throw away the solvent weld trap and the other stuff and install a slip joint trap. It will make things lot easier to align.

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Old 12-22-16, 06:35 PM
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The picture Ray posted is perfect for what you want to do.

Cut off your old trap behind the hub and glue on a PVC trap adapter:
1-1/2 in. PVC DWV Hub x SJ Trap Adapter-C48017HD112 - The Home Depot

It's easy to align the trap after that, both the trap and the disposer can be rotated into alignment.
 
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Old 12-22-16, 06:48 PM
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Thank you all. I believe all of you are right. I have just tried again. Everything is rigid so that alignment is difficult now. Let me avoid wasting your time by skipping explaining why it worked before.
Following your tip to replace the trap is my plan now. There is a True Value store nearby, I will see if I can get something similar to the one in the picture tomorrow morning.
 
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Old 12-22-16, 06:52 PM
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When you cut off your existing trap, you will glue on the adapter i linked to earlier... then you will get the traps and tailpieces that are in rays photo... be sure you get the 1 1/2" size.
 
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Old 12-22-16, 07:36 PM
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True Value store nearby, I will see if I can get something similar to the one in the picture tomorrow morning.
You certainly can get one. They're common as dirt. And speaking of dirt... As to why it didn't leak before it may have when first done and no one noticed. Then gunk built up and sealed it. Something like a bump on the trap may have dislodged the gunk and it began to leak again.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 12-22-16 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 12-22-16, 08:29 PM
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Thank you for all the instructions. I will print out the picture and bring it to True Value or Loews.
In case you wonder why it did not leak (actually leaked very slightly) before, I believe it had to do with the long elbow. I was so lazy when I installed the disposal a few years ago that I did not cut the elbow, so the long elbow inserted into the trap helped the alignment significantly. I cut the elbow today following the original instructions, and it became much worse.
Attached is the trap that I have just cut out.
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  #11  
Old 12-23-16, 08:04 AM
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FWIW, I carry neoprene slip washers. They are soft and more compliant with slight misalignment issues than the nylon washers that come with all of the slip fittings. I have occasionally had a leak problem caused by the little "rib" left when the slip fittings were molded. I gently sand it off and it cures the leak.
 
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Old 12-23-16, 09:33 AM
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Thank you for the tip, Handyman663. I will keep that in mind.

Ray, I could not find the piece between the trap and the elbow at TrueValue. I may have to go to Home Depo or Lowes to get it.
 
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Old 12-23-16, 09:39 AM
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Ray, I could not find the piece between the trap and the elbow at TrueValue
I can't believe that. They should have had boxes of them in multiple lengths. They are called drain extensions tubes. Here is the part on their site: http://www.truevalue.com/product/Lav...in%20extension
 
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Old 12-23-16, 09:42 AM
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It's surprising they wouldn't have a tailpiece extension. They usually have them in several different lengths. Your best bet is probably going to be to get a long one, which you can cut to length once everything else is assembled.
 
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Old 12-23-16, 10:24 AM
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I actually bought one as shown by the attached photo, but I thought I bought a wrong one because I could not figure out how to connect it to the elbow of the disposal. Is that the right one?
In my case, the nut is on the elbow, not the extension.
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Old 12-23-16, 10:40 AM
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That is wrong. That is a tail piece not an extension tube.
 
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Old 12-23-16, 10:45 AM
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I will go back and replace it with an extension tube. Isn't funny that it is labeled as extension tube.
 
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Old 12-23-16, 11:15 AM
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Old 12-23-16, 11:56 AM
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The trap is fine. Again here is the link to what they should have sold you: Master Plumber Lavatory/Kitchen Drain Extension Tube: Model# 176-302 | True Value
 
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Old 12-23-16, 09:11 PM
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Thanks a lot again, Ray.
I went back to the nearby True Value store, but could not find it. Fortunately, an Aubuhon store a mile away has it:
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  #21  
Old 12-24-16, 12:07 PM
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I found the culprit - crack on the elbow:
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The crack is probably a result of chronic stress from misalignment. I could not find an elbow with long upper part, so I did a crazy thing by breaking the elbow then, glue them back with crazy glue. I have ordered an elbow with the right dimensions. It should be here next Tuesday. I hope this glued one will hold till then. So far so good. I will abstain from spinning the disposal.
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The only minor leak is at a joint of the trap:

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I am really puzzled. All other joints with identical nuts and washers work perfectly - zero leak. Only this one leaks. I have taken it apart and examined it carefully, but not been able not find anything wrong. Any tip will be appreciated.
 
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Old 12-24-16, 12:15 PM
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Kind of looks like the compression ring is on upside down. Loosen the nut, raise it up onto the extension and post a picture.
 
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Old 12-24-16, 01:55 PM
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Here is the picture:
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I think the orientation of the washer is correct - the wider side is on the top.
 
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Old 12-24-16, 02:00 PM
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Yep, thats right. Be sure the ring isn't sitting in there crooked... push down on the trap a little to loosen it up and seat the compression ring again. And make sure that nut doesnt already have a built in compression ring... you dont need 2 if it already has one built into the nut.
 
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Old 12-24-16, 02:36 PM
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All you have to do is add teflon paste to the washer and threads that the nut screws on too... Hand tighten only... Run hot water and hand tighten again...

You will have no leaks..

All I use for 35 years..

8 oz. Real-Tuff Thread Sealant-156202 - The Home Depot
 
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Old 12-24-16, 02:54 PM
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Just to add to what Mike said, I use Teflon paste on that particular joint always.
I don't wait to see if it's going to leak.
 
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Old 12-24-16, 02:57 PM
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I took it apart again, and clean the trap, washer and nut as much as I could, but it still leaks though very little. The drain is slow right now, so leak starts only when water rises to the sink.
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There are four identical joints with the same type of nuts and washers. A novice like me would think this one is the least likely to leak.

I do not have Teflon paste, but I have Teflon tape now. The nearby stores will not open until Monday. Can I try that?

I am wondering if neoprene slip washer recommended by handyman will take care of this.
 
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Old 12-24-16, 03:52 PM
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I am wondering if neoprene slip washer recommended by handyman will take care of this.
Yes, the neoprene washers are worth their weight in gold.

In the meantime use the Teflon tape.
- Raise up the nut only, keep the washer seated. Use regular sticky tape to hold the nut up out of your way.
- Wrap the male threads and the washer with tape, overlapping, and tighten the nut.
 
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Old 12-24-16, 03:52 PM
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No tape... that will restrict tightening...

Neoprene washers not needed..

Get the paste...
 
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Old 12-24-16, 03:54 PM
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Also check for cracked nut from over tighten... Its common...
 
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Old 12-24-16, 05:57 PM
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When I took them apart, I placed all the parts on a counter and examined them carefully, and could not find anything wrong.
I ordered the sealant.
I used Teflon tape as suggested by Handyone to manage the current situation before I get the sealant. It has not stopped the leak completely, but reduced it by more than 80%. Now, it is already better than it was before this episode. The clog is probably quite far from the sink, it takes a lot of water to fill the pipe before it reaches the sink, so there is no leak most of the time. Even if the water reaches the sink, the leak will be only two or three drops now.
I am so glad that I have heeded the advice to replace the system with a slip-joint one. It is so easy to work on any part of it that it takes less than a minute to take out any part for examination or repair.

Thank you and merry Christmas to all!
 
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Old 12-24-16, 06:09 PM
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Thanks for letting us know your progress and merry Christmas.
 
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Old 01-15-17, 07:55 PM
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Happy New Year!

The kitchen sink cabinet floor has been dry for a few weeks. I have used the dishwasher linked to it many times, and even run the disposal a few times.

I have got the paste. I bought an elbow at a local store and found the section with the flange is 0.5" too short. I ordered one from TrueValue that looked right, but found it has the same problem after receiving it. I have the option to get order one specifically for my Waste King disposal.

I am wondering if there is an easy way to extend the elbow that I have already bought:
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Old 01-15-17, 09:38 PM
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You can use a PVC waste arm and a short tailpiece to make your elbow.

Here's one at HD: Everbilt 1.5 in. x 15 in. PVC Waste Arm-C2690B - The Home Depot

I would get a 6" tailpiece also in case the one included with the kit is too short.
 
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Old 01-16-17, 10:17 AM
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Thanks a lot, Brian.

The Waste King disposal requires a flange like the following:
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I feel that I might as well order one specifically for Waste King which is not expensive. I stopped by HD the other day, could not find the right elbow either.

I am wondering if I should take the approach of "If it works, don't fix it" though I will have everything ready to use the paste and a new elbow if problem occurs.
 
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Old 01-16-17, 10:38 AM
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Yes, the elbow requires a flange, the short tailpiece has a flange and will be clamped to the disposer outlet the same fashion as the original elbow.
Slip gasket/washer over end of tailpiece and then the metal plate.

It doesn't matter that tailpiece flange at C is thicker than the elbow flange.

Once you have a tailpiece coming out the side, all you need to do is trim the length and drop it down using the waste arm.


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A long story short you are "side discharging" instead of using an elbow.


Here's a pic showing the method is almost the same:

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Old 01-16-17, 11:27 AM
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Thanks a lot, Brian.

The is an interesting task that I am interested in taking. I am not clear how to join the tailpiece (after cutting it to about 2" long) to an elbow?
 
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Old 01-16-17, 12:24 PM
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Come out the side with a tailpiece as shown previously, 3, 4" whatever.

In the drawing below, the nut with the arrow will be replaced by your metal plate and rubber gasket.

The new vertical piece, marked A, is a waste arm like linked to, buy one.
That waste arm will slip over the end of the tailpiece and also slip down into the top of the trap.

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Old 01-16-17, 01:15 PM
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Thank you for the elucidation. I feel that I understand what you mean now: using the waste arm + tailpiece to replace the elbow. The tailpiece goes to the disposal on one end and joins the waste arm on the other end. It does not need the elbow that I have.
 
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Old 01-16-17, 01:49 PM
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You got it. Thank you for the new word, elucidation.
Usually plumbing work only requires 4 letter words, cuss words.
 
 

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