I'm a fairly handy weekend warrior but have never sweated copper pipe. The time has come! I wanted to ask some questions before I attempt this, thank you for your time.



Main shutoff valve is old and does not close properly. I want to replace it with a ball valve. Also, we leave for summer, I want to be able to water plants without having to keep water on in the house. (We have had two leaks in the past 3 years: one slab leak hot water line and one copper elbow at the bend not the joint)

My questions, see pics:
1. Is this copper pipe, or galvanized iron/steel. house is 1972
2. Can I cut at red mark 1 (pic1). The pipe looks really beat up and that worries me.

My current plan is to cut at red mark 2 and 3 and replace as in my crude drawing.

 

Yes, that's copper. If the irrigation leg goes to anything other than hose bibbs with anti-siphon fittings, such as to a built in sprinkler system, or any pipe that goes underground, then you need a double-check check valve to prevent any chance of siphoning contaminated water into your drinking water supply. Otherwise your plan seems fine.

Pick up some extra fittings and pipe and practice on that until you get the hang of sweating copper. It's not hard, but there is a little learning curve in terms of getting the parts to the right temperature without overheating and burning the flux too much. And knowing how much solder to apply (less than you might think). Plenty of videos out there.

 

Ah ha, this is why I post here. That is good looking out Mr. CarbideTipped. I had forgotten about anti-siphon valves. And definitely going to practice.

Any advice on the best way to connect copper to PVC. We are in AZ here hot and dry.

Good to know that it is copper. Why does it look like that though? I guess it is Type K copper and some of it painted.

My plan is to branch off and run a PVC line around the outside of the house and connect up with the irrigation system at the back.

 

You would be surprised how good all that copper would look if you went at it with a coarse scrubbie and some straight vinegar.
You would also do well to put a valve in the branch going to the garden.

And, congrats on your interest in learning the usefull skill of soldering!
Too many take the ezee way out and use the short term solution of a push-on quickie connector.

 

Do all copper work first. Sweat a copper to thread fitting to connect to PVC to copper. Be sure to sweat that fitting before connecting plastic.

 

Thanks GregH, I confess here that I have been guilty of the easy route before . But I seek redemption , and depending on how it goes might do redo of those... good point about that valve, I guess this is in case I need to do repairs on that line and need water in the house.

Also, thanks pugsl, I could hjust see myself screwing that up and having the pvc melt as I sweated the copper

 

Your biggest issue is going to be making sure that the pipe is well sanded and cleaned before soldering, especially the portion of the pipe against the house. My trick is when you finally think it's clean enough to solder, you're halfway done.

And I'll repeat Greg's comment - since I think it's important

 

I second Mike's point about cleaning...insufficient cleaning is probably the most common cause of poor sweated joints. It may be a little a&^%-retentive, but when I finish sanding the pieces, I usually wipe with an alcohol dampened rag. It removes any oil and grime that sanding just seems to spread around. The flux is supposed to take care of that, but it only takes a second to do.

 

Ok, got it! I am all super amped to clean this thing now!

One thing, I've learnt since we've had this house a couple a years ago. Its ALL in the preparation... sometimes, I forget it and get lazy. But, I'm going to be dreading a leak and the inevitable, call of shame to Joe Plumber. So, its going to be CLEANED and alcohol wiped!

So, I could just move the first valve to the branch going into the garden. So I have just two ball valves in all. One controlling water to house and one to garden.

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm off to buy supplies this weekend... practice and see how it goes.

 

Good luck! Be sure to share pics when you're done!

One other comment you may already know. When you're selecting shutoff valves, be sure to choose ball valves. They will last longer and be much more reliable.

 

Also...look for full port ball valves; they don't restrict the flow when fully open. Some ball valves have a less than full size opening.

 

In looking at your picture.... cutting the pipe at 1 is not going to work. At that point you are working between a 90 and a tee. I would cut it at 2 and try to heat just below 1 at tee to get the 90 and tee to split.

Just so you are aware..... although plumbing is not difficult you do not have an easy job there. Those connections going into the house are hard to replace if you run into trouble.

 

In California, a professional plumber must be specifically certified to work on backflow devices. Don't know if that applies in AZ. You could ask a plumbing store.

An important step in sweating is getting all the water out of the pipes. If you can't get the water out of the pipes, undo the union at the meter and drain the house from there.

 

Another trick it you have water dripping not running is to stuff bread in pipe. Will hold water back long enough to sweat fitting on.

 

Ahhh, this is getting complicated and my resolve is weakening!

Not sure I want to do anything near the meter. Have to get the city out to even switch off the water. Though code here has no restrictions on who can work on backflow devices (wild west!).

I like the bread idea, pro tip, pugsl! I guess there is no way to know how much time that will give me, until I try...but its only a short run (20ft) from the meter to the site.

Cutting at 1 was worrying me too, PJmax. At this point, I just plan to leave the hose bib (between 1 &2) as it is. Put my full port ball valves ( thanks Carbide and Zorfdt!) between 2 & 3.

I'll keep a professional on speed dial, fill up some water containers and do it when my wife is out of town! Its going to be an EVENT!

 

The build up is bigger than the job. 10 to 15 minutes after a few practice try's. Have it all per built before cutting anything. You will need couplers without the center punch to splice in tight spot.

 

I would do as Pete said and unsweat the hose bib tee at the top. I would also unsweat the old valve tee at the very bottom. Doing that gives you two ends that are already round and only need cleaning.
It will also be easier to sweat the very top joint while you are looking down.

I recommend MAPP gas over propane, it's hotter. Heat the old joints and pull off with pliers.
Use a dry course rag to wipe off the old solder while it's melted. After that you can use emery cloth to further clean the two ends.

The bread trick works. After water is restored the bread will come out in a smooth paste.
There are also gel filled balls that can be stuffed in the pipe.

 

What exactly are couples with counter punch, is it the same as a stop.

I was wondering if I could assemble and solder beforehand and then just do the top and bottom connections. Or will soldering in the near vicinity loosen previously created joints.

Handyone, are you suggesting that then I don't do any cutting at all and just unsolder the connections. I am worried that the pipe right at the top of the hose bib looks beat up and sort of lumpy and I might not get a clean, circular opening...

also, I am aware you old hands reading this are probably going... enough talk, get on with it already... and yes, that is what should happen.

 

Yeah, the term is stop and it's the same. The repair coupler will slide over the joint (all along the pipe) allowing you to insert your assembly and solder it in.
Don't worry about the heat loosening other joints, just focus on one and you should be OK.


How about cut below the hose bib tee and see how it goes (I assume perfectly)
You can always take out the bib tee if needed.