Replacing water shutoff valve

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Old 02-28-17, 10:31 AM
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Replacing water shutoff valve

I want to replace this water shutoff valve.

Are these compression nut style fittings i can loosen off the existing shutoff valve? Loosening the compression nut while holding the shutoff valve with a second wrench?

It looks like someone soldered right above the top compression nut. Or is that just pipe worn away.

I am afraid of twisting the copper pipe. Name:  IMG_3557.jpg
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Old 02-28-17, 10:54 AM
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I can't see well enough to tell, Better picture with more light should help. Try holding valve body and turning the nut on right side.
 
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Old 02-28-17, 11:05 AM
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It looks more to me more like it is a threaded valve and threaded adaptors soldered onto the pipes. If so, the only way to replace is to cut it out.
 
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Old 02-28-17, 11:15 AM
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Carbide please excuse me - no lie I was typing the following as you posted - LOL

Iím not a plumber or expert and I might not understand what you are referring to Ė but

It looks to me like that valve body has a female pipe connection on each side. It looks to me looking at the right side of the valve body, that the copper pipe has a male threaded adapter soldered on and that adapter is threaded into the female threads of the valve body. But I think you should be able to see a couple of male threads exposed there, if that was correct.

In other words, male threaded adapters could have been screwed into the female threads of the valve body and then the male adapters could have then been soldered to the copper pipe.

But I guess if you donít see any threads then that canít be correct. (I wonder if they just soldered over the threaded connection.)

It doesnít look like any kind of compression fitting to me but I sure could be wrong. I think the more knowledgeable guys will be along.
 
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Old 02-28-17, 12:15 PM
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I'll take a closer look and get better pics.

Do you guys think an easier solution would be to replace the leaky stem washer?

- shut off the main water
- disassemble the shutoff valve in place.
- replace the washer
- reassemble

I believe I have a glove valve.

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Old 02-28-17, 12:29 PM
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I’ll be boring and so I repeat I’m no expert – but I would replace that old valve since you are going through the trouble of shutting off the main. (That might be a gate valve – I think, since it’s a shut-off. Usually all open or all closed then a gate valve is appropriate. But I guess that’s not important.)

I believe today everyone uses ball-valves for shut-offs like that. They are much more reliable. I would just replace that valve with a ball valve.

Just my opinion!

(just also thinking suppose you get into trouble replacing - or trying to replace - the washer, if it exists, when you open up the valve. you would probably have to have a backup plan in place anyway at that point. Just my opinion.)

Oh - I assumed this is a shut-off for the unit. OK - this is just a shut-off for a sink or something. But still I would replace the valve. Need the other guys to chime in
 
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Old 02-28-17, 12:33 PM
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I'd certainly try replacing the washer first. Sometimes the seat is in bad shape and replacing the washer won't fix it. If that's the case, some seats are replaceable, some can be resurfaced with a special tool. But try the washer first. When you have it disassembled, look at the seat (the part the washer seals against. If it looks nice and smooth with no nicks or broken out areas the washer should work.
 
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Old 02-28-17, 12:40 PM
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Are all the internal parts replaceable? Seat, spindle? Or could I just buy another valve and disassemble?
 
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Old 02-28-17, 12:45 PM
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If you still have a real plumbing supply place nearby (they are a vanishing breed) then you may be able to get internal parts if you take the old parts to them to match up.

There's about a zero chance that you will find new valve with matching parts.

Zoesdad makes a reasonable point that sometimes it makes sense to replace. Depends on if you are comfortable with sweating copper in a confined area or not.
 
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Old 02-28-17, 02:20 PM
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Ok I took some better pictures. I think you guys are right. Its seems to be a male unions threaded into the female shut-off valves threads. You can see the sweat (silver). The white stuff on the threads is plumbers tape.

I felt up higher on the copper pipes and there are 90 degree elbows, etc.

I'd like to replace the stem washer as a temporary fix. Does that involve loosening the square looking nut at the end of the spindle and pulling the assembly out?

The longer term solution is cutting the copper pipe sweating on new unions to a ball-valve.

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Last edited by branimal; 02-28-17 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 02-28-17, 02:23 PM
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anyone know why all my pics rotate 90 degrees counter clockwise?
 
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Old 02-28-17, 03:13 PM
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You have a long stem, screwed bonnet, globe valve with standard female threaded ports. The connections to the piping are soldered threaded adapters. There is no way to replace that valve without cutting at least one of the pipes.

Soldering a new valve in that stud cavity would be quite dangerous (fire) unless you have an electric pipe soldering tool, about $100 to $150. You might be able to use "Sharkbite" fittings IF there is any lateral play in one of the pipes, something that you probably cannot know until you cut the pipe.

If I were you I would try a new "washer", more properly called a disc. Some valves have replaceable seats and discs but I doubt that valve is one of them. A disc reseating tool can b e bought for less than $10. No guarantee it won't make the problem worse but it is worth a try in my opinion.
 
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Old 02-28-17, 08:15 PM
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Good idea!! I picked up some sharkbite fittings.

Steps I think:
1. I will cut the pipe above the leaky shut off (assuming thats not the supply pipe); the water flow will be minimal
2. install the sharkbite with the ball valve and female threads. turn the valve off. Now i have two valves on the same section of pipe.
3. on the remaining cut pipe install the second sharkbite with male threads.
4. screw them together. When threading the sharkbite piece with male threads to the female threads, it shouldn't spin the copper pipe right?

I just need to figure out the appropriate lengths to cut now.Name:  IMG_3572.jpg
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Old 03-01-17, 05:55 AM
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Iíve used Sharkbites and yes the copper pipe will be free to spin in the fitting. But I think the point Furd makes needs to be considered if I understand your proposed procedure: you will need to have some movement in the pipes so you can pull the pipe back to get it to the point where you can push it into the fitting or thread the 2 pieces together Ė and as Furd says you really wonít know how much play you have until you cut the pipe.

I donít know whether they have done this, but if there are clamps or something in the wall holding the pipes you might not have any movement at all. I donít know whether thatís done or if so how common that is. Maybe the other guys will weigh in.
 
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Old 03-01-17, 06:06 AM
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I think I will have some play with the pipes. I am cutting the wallboard away and will remove brackets restricting the pipes movement.

Thanks for letting me know the pipe spins freely in the sharkbite.
 
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Old 03-01-17, 06:25 AM
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Iíve used Sharkbites and yes the copper pipe will be free to spin in the fitting. But I think the point Furd makes needs to be considered if I understand your proposed procedure: you will need to have some movement in the pipes so you can pull the pipe back to get it to the point where you can push it into the fitting or thread the 2 pieces together Ė and as Furd says you really wonít know how much play you have until you cut the pipe.

I donít know whether they have done this, but if there are clamps or something in the wall holding the pipes you might not have any movement at all. I donít know whether thatís done or if so how common that is. Maybe the other guys will weigh in.
 
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Old 03-01-17, 08:22 AM
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I guess I posted twice - I guess I posted twice (LOL).

Sounds like your plan will work to me. You have to try and get a nice straight cut on the pipe and deburr so that it fits well into the Sharkbite. I always have a hard time getting a nice straight cut using a hacksaw but I think everyone can get a nice straight cut using a tubing cutter. Looks to me like you will have room in that cavity to use a tubing cutter. That's what I would use.

Maybe something like this:

RIDGID 101 Tubing Cutter-40617 - The Home Depot

Hope the other guys chime in.


(just remembered - you have to make sure you have the outside of the pipe smooth and clean before you push it into the sharkbite)
 
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Old 03-01-17, 11:49 AM
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you guys were right. there doesn't seem to be much play in the pipes. I'll cut open a later hole and see if there are any brackets holding pipe in place.
 
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Old 03-01-17, 02:47 PM
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There were no brackets holding the line in place. The hot water line (the line of interest) goes up and makes a T. The two connections off the T drop down and supply the double sinks. The sink of the left T's off again and runs around the perimeter of the bathroom to the tub/shower.
 
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Old 03-01-17, 05:02 PM
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If you get into trouble and can’t move the pipe I think the Sharkbite slip repair coupling might help (getting expensive). I think it would. Hope the more experienced guys weigh in. Otherwise I think the only way to do it would be to solder.


Slip Coupling: Copper or CPVC Repair

I know what Furd is saying that’s a difficult place to use flame, but I’ve used a torch in tough spots using cookie baking sheets and pie tins and heat shield material (I think you can get it at Home Depot) made to protect surfaces. I also keep a bucket of water and a fire extinguisher close (never needed them).

I use a MAPP torch so it doesn’t take long to heat the pipe/fitting. I also do a dry run. That is I pick up the torch and pretend it has flame and then move it around the pipe/fitting as if the flame were on and I were doing the job. I then look to see where the flame would be hitting if in fact the flame were on and make sure that surface is well protected – because once you start the job it’s just easier to just focus on the pipe and not worry about other things.

But maybe the experts would say in your case it’s too risky. Looks like Furd would vote no.
 
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Old 03-01-17, 06:22 PM
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Looks like Furd would vote no.
Not necessarily. IF you open the wall sufficiently to remove the immediate fire hazard and then use proper care in setting up baffles and the like a person well-versed in soldering piping could do the job safely using just a slip type repair coupling.

In the original hole pictured I would use my Antex Pipemaster, electric pipe soldering tool. I think the lowest price I have seen this tool was about $100 for a factory rebuilt model on Ebay.
 
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