water and sewage air backing up the washer pipe
#1
11-21-17, 11:29 AM
water and sewage air backing up the washer pipe
The picture attached is of the 2nd floor plumbing in a 3 floor building.
Today I was using the sink here on the 2nd floor and the upstairs apartment either flushed their toilet or also used some kitchen water. At the exact same time a load of water splurted out the washer drain pipe and then a load of sewage air.
This sounds like a venting problem, maybe it doesn't happen normally as the sink could unintentionally be used as a air vent in this pipe setup. But the water backing up is odd.
Any ideas what could cause that and how to fix?
Today I was using the sink here on the 2nd floor and the upstairs apartment either flushed their toilet or also used some kitchen water. At the exact same time a load of water splurted out the washer drain pipe and then a load of sewage air.
This sounds like a venting problem, maybe it doesn't happen normally as the sink could unintentionally be used as a air vent in this pipe setup. But the water backing up is odd.
Any ideas what could cause that and how to fix?
#2
11-21-17, 11:34 AM
Group Moderator
Look in the cabinet underneath the sink. You will likely see a trap there which means the sink won't act as a vent. If you have not had this problem before the first thing I would check for is a partially clogged drain line. The clog may be letting water by slowly but can't handle a large volume and it's backing up and the first place for it to escape is your washer hook-up.
#3
11-21-17, 11:53 AM
Snake / drain cleaner might do the job?
Wouldn;t it be a blockage in the bigger 3/4" waste pipe further below?
What causes it to rush back up the standpipe only when the 3rd floor uses water?
AAV on the standpipe?
Wouldn;t it be a blockage in the bigger 3/4" waste pipe further below?
What causes it to rush back up the standpipe only when the 3rd floor uses water?
AAV on the standpipe?
#6
11-21-17, 01:09 PM
There was bad ceiling leak at some stage in the past that wasn't fixed by the previous owner.
Looks like it feeds into a cast iron pipe of 1.5" and then a bigger pipe which is also iron.
The pipe doesn't run down at that exact spot, looks like it goes horizontally somewhere else, not obvious where so maybe in a wall somewhere. I would have to check the crawl space for any down pipes.
Looks like it feeds into a cast iron pipe of 1.5" and then a bigger pipe which is also iron.
The pipe doesn't run down at that exact spot, looks like it goes horizontally somewhere else, not obvious where so maybe in a wall somewhere. I would have to check the crawl space for any down pipes.
Last edited by qwertyjjj; 11-21-17 at 01:24 PM.
#7
11-21-17, 02:18 PM
Super Moderator
LOL... No I mean that sink is on the second floor.. Whats on the first floor? Is there a bath below you? Because if a main line clog the 1st floor would be sure to have water..
#8
11-21-17, 03:39 PM
The picture with the iron pipe is in the ceiling of the first floor just below that sink...
The 1st floor has plenty of plumbing features, nothing is flooding.
The main waste line is then in the basement with a 4" pipe.
The 1st floor has plenty of plumbing features, nothing is flooding.
The main waste line is then in the basement with a 4" pipe.
#9
11-21-17, 03:52 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Sounds like a clog between first and second floor. Is there a clean out any place on second floor?
#10
11-21-17, 04:39 PM
Everything on the second floor is draining properly though no backups. It was only when the 3rd floor used something it must have flooded the pipes but for water to come back up and burst out doesn;t that mean an air bubble?
The first picture shows a clearout just before it goes into the floor.
The first picture shows a clearout just before it goes into the floor.
#11
11-21-17, 06:12 PM
Super Moderator
I would say a partial blockage as stated just past your sink pic but above the fixtures of the first floor..
If older house and if a sink up on third above you, that line may be a common sink line and may not go into stack..
Hence why there are studor vents
If older house and if a sink up on third above you, that line may be a common sink line and may not go into stack..
Hence why there are studor vents
#13
11-22-17, 05:57 AM
What's the best way to clear? As it's partial, hot water or drain cleaner will just go straight past a blockage.
There aren;t any studor vents (AAV) in the picture?
There aren;t any studor vents (AAV) in the picture?
#14
11-22-17, 08:05 AM
Group Moderator
Nope, I don't see a Studor (AAV) in your pictures.
The best way to clear the lines is with a power auger. The powered type are the best as they can handle a head large enough to clean all/most of the pipes cross section. Smaller hand held augers and rod will often slide through the opening that's already at the clog without removing it and opening the pipe back to it's full diameter. Luckily you have a clean out fitting on your washer drain line (though I can't figure out why it's oriented so your sink drain pipe blocks it).
The best way to clear the lines is with a power auger. The powered type are the best as they can handle a head large enough to clean all/most of the pipes cross section. Smaller hand held augers and rod will often slide through the opening that's already at the clog without removing it and opening the pipe back to it's full diameter. Luckily you have a clean out fitting on your washer drain line (though I can't figure out why it's oriented so your sink drain pipe blocks it).
#15
11-22-17, 08:21 AM
Super Moderator
Has it always done this?
Oh I thought I read there was an AAV under the sink..
An aav added to the elbow going to the washer stand pipe would be a good idea IMO. Remove that ell and add a tee. Raise the aav as high as the standpipe...
Snake line through that clean out with a simple hand held snake ...
Oh I thought I read there was an AAV under the sink..
An aav added to the elbow going to the washer stand pipe would be a good idea IMO. Remove that ell and add a tee. Raise the aav as high as the standpipe...
Snake line through that clean out with a simple hand held snake ...
#16
11-22-17, 09:04 AM
SO, I put an AAV just after the p trap? It has to be a certain distance above the sink horizontal waste also?
Unsure if it always did this, we just bought the place. I assume from the damage on the 1st floor ceiling that it has been there a while but not always.
Unsure if it always did this, we just bought the place. I assume from the damage on the 1st floor ceiling that it has been there a while but not always.
Last edited by qwertyjjj; 11-22-17 at 11:25 AM.
#19
11-22-17, 02:43 PM
Group Moderator
#22
11-23-17, 04:05 AM
Group Moderator
Yea, I think you have a partial clog and that is the cause of water coming up and out of the washer drain. It's unrelated but adding an AAV is a good idea for that arm of plumbing.
#23
11-28-17, 10:04 AM
I agree with the others. The venting will help with draining in general, but the back-up problems you are experiencing are definitely due to a clog.
I would go with the snake like Mike suggested over drain cleaner. I've never had any luck with drain cleaners.
I would go with the snake like Mike suggested over drain cleaner. I've never had any luck with drain cleaners.
#24
12-15-17, 05:14 PM
I had a look in the crawl space, it's actually 2" pipe but it connects to iron pipe in the wall which runs for about 12'. I didn't have much luck trying to unblock it with an auger. Seems difficult to get the auger through a turn in the pipes somewhere.
if I wanted to replace the iron pipe, do I have to tear up the full 10' of the wall to fit a new one in?
if I wanted to replace the iron pipe, do I have to tear up the full 10' of the wall to fit a new one in?
#25
12-16-17, 04:03 AM
Group Moderator
#27
12-16-17, 08:22 AM
So it looks like it's PVC on the 2nd floor, then cast iron through the 1st floor, then ABS in the crawlspace? Can you tell how far you get with the auger? If it's a straight down shot in CI, it likely isn't clogged there. Though if there's a kitchen sink in the mix, it's quite possible there's years of grease piled up.
Depending on how easy it is to work in the crawlspace, you may be able to add a cleanout to the ABS to help see what you're dealing with.
Depending on how easy it is to work in the crawlspace, you may be able to add a cleanout to the ABS to help see what you're dealing with.
#29
12-16-17, 10:02 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Take PVC off on second floor, use auger to clean out cast pipe than install clean out there for future use.
#30
12-16-17, 05:18 PM
There is already a cleanout on second floor - in the picture on the original post on this thread.
Can't get the auger beyond a few feet. Gets stuck in a bend or something. Not blockage just something like a solid corner
Can't get the auger beyond a few feet. Gets stuck in a bend or something. Not blockage just something like a solid corner
#31
12-18-17, 05:57 AM
What's the best way to support the 15' iron pipe whilst cutting it out? I assume it's supported already dive the base is 2" abs bit thinking I should cut it in parts from the second floor downward
I only have a reciprocating saw for the job. Very tight space to work with an angle grinder and kickback
I only have a reciprocating saw for the job. Very tight space to work with an angle grinder and kickback
Last edited by qwertyjjj; 12-18-17 at 06:18 AM.
#32
05-07-18, 11:50 AM
Plumber ran the power auger. Issue still happening.
Is there a chance that a bigger pipe from the other side of the building could be pushing air back up into this pipe when the sir moves in the main stack? The main stack runs horizontally (with incline) along the underside of house in crawl space and pipes connect into that at various places.
Anyway air could be pushed up the yellow indicated pipe from the flow in red pipes?
It seems like everything is connected properly using wyes.
Is there a chance that a bigger pipe from the other side of the building could be pushing air back up into this pipe when the sir moves in the main stack? The main stack runs horizontally (with incline) along the underside of house in crawl space and pipes connect into that at various places.
Anyway air could be pushed up the yellow indicated pipe from the flow in red pipes?
It seems like everything is connected properly using wyes.
#33
05-07-18, 01:15 PM
I also discovered that the iron pipe in the wall between the floors is a tee rather than a wye. Is it possible that when water runs down from the 3rd that it pushes air out the pipe sideways?
