Tracking Down Pressure/Temp Issues
#1
12-13-17, 09:17 AM
Tracking Down Pressure/Temp Issues
This is a bit of a long post, so thank you in advance for reading it.
Our home was built in 2002. We moved in a couple of years ago. It is a fairly large home with just under 5k finished square feet. It's a large ranch with a basement. My issue is with our master bath/shower mostly. My wife's sink takes a long time to get hot water, unless we have the recirculating pump turned on. There are multiple shower heads in the master shower and multiple on/off/temp controls for it. I have cleaned each shower head with CLR and determined there is no longer any build up. The issue we're having is with pressure and temperature for my wife's side of the shower and pressure on my side. My wife says that the hot water does not last very long on her side, of course my answer to take shorter showers is a non-starter. The pressure on her side is also very erratic. Most of the time it trends to the low side but other times it's great. For my side of the shower, temperature has always been good. The pressure on my side is low though and stays that way. So there are the main issues.
The house is serviced by a well. The utility rooms are set up somewhat different than my previous homes. On the south side of the house, where the well plumbing enters the home, there is a reservoir tank, about 45 gallons. After that the water goes through a Culligan filter and then softener before going to a 40 gallon water heater. This utility room is on the opposite end of the house from the master bath. We did remove a 2nd water heater from here that was leaking. Pressure on the gauge next to the reservoir tank shows 40-45psi and then when the pump turns on it goes to about 60 before slowly settling back down. The other utility which is on the north side of the home, houses the furnace and a 75 gallon WH which heats the in-floor heating system throughout the house.
Here are my thoughts, please correct me if I'm wrong. I think the issues are arising due to a combination of factors. #1, the master bath is on the opposite end of the house from the WH that services my wife's side of the shower. #2 I think my side of the shower is serviced from the 2nd utility room WH, which also services the in-floor system. That's why I never see an issue with temp. So to wrap up a long winded post, how can I get a more constant pressure and be sure my wife is getting enough hot water?
Thank you again in advance if you've made it this far.
Our home was built in 2002. We moved in a couple of years ago. It is a fairly large home with just under 5k finished square feet. It's a large ranch with a basement. My issue is with our master bath/shower mostly. My wife's sink takes a long time to get hot water, unless we have the recirculating pump turned on. There are multiple shower heads in the master shower and multiple on/off/temp controls for it. I have cleaned each shower head with CLR and determined there is no longer any build up. The issue we're having is with pressure and temperature for my wife's side of the shower and pressure on my side. My wife says that the hot water does not last very long on her side, of course my answer to take shorter showers is a non-starter. The pressure on her side is also very erratic. Most of the time it trends to the low side but other times it's great. For my side of the shower, temperature has always been good. The pressure on my side is low though and stays that way. So there are the main issues.
The house is serviced by a well. The utility rooms are set up somewhat different than my previous homes. On the south side of the house, where the well plumbing enters the home, there is a reservoir tank, about 45 gallons. After that the water goes through a Culligan filter and then softener before going to a 40 gallon water heater. This utility room is on the opposite end of the house from the master bath. We did remove a 2nd water heater from here that was leaking. Pressure on the gauge next to the reservoir tank shows 40-45psi and then when the pump turns on it goes to about 60 before slowly settling back down. The other utility which is on the north side of the home, houses the furnace and a 75 gallon WH which heats the in-floor heating system throughout the house.
Here are my thoughts, please correct me if I'm wrong. I think the issues are arising due to a combination of factors. #1, the master bath is on the opposite end of the house from the WH that services my wife's side of the shower. #2 I think my side of the shower is serviced from the 2nd utility room WH, which also services the in-floor system. That's why I never see an issue with temp. So to wrap up a long winded post, how can I get a more constant pressure and be sure my wife is getting enough hot water?
Thank you again in advance if you've made it this far.
#2
12-13-17, 09:49 AM
Group Moderator
It's important to figure out what is feeding what hot water. I doubt her side of the shower is fed from a different heater but it is possible. I have the bathrooms in my house fed from different water heaters but don't split the baths. Do you have a shutoff valve in front of each water heater? If so you can close it and see which fixtures loose their hot water.
You mentioned that both his and her shower have pressure issues but you don't say if they have the same or different pressure. Is her water pressure or flow volume less than yours?
You mentioned that both his and her shower have pressure issues but you don't say if they have the same or different pressure. Is her water pressure or flow volume less than yours?
#3
12-13-17, 09:55 AM
I will try closing the shut offs to each water heater and see if I can determine which WH serves which shower/faucet. Can I simply just close the valve coming out of the WH? I don't need to worry about a pressure build up or anything like that?
In regards to the pressure, typically my shower is less no matter what. Hers will come and go but tends to stay lower than it should. Once in a while, when I first turn my shower on the pressure will be high but it fades within a minute or two.
In regards to the pressure, typically my shower is less no matter what. Hers will come and go but tends to stay lower than it should. Once in a while, when I first turn my shower on the pressure will be high but it fades within a minute or two.
#4
12-13-17, 12:09 PM
Group Moderator
Most water heaters have the shut off valve on the inlet and none on the outlet. This allows the water to be turned off to just the heater so it can be serviced without having to turn off water to the entire house. Some jurisdictions don't permit having a shutoff valve on the outlet of a water heater because of the very remote chance of a pressure build-up problem. In my house I have a valve on both the inlet and outlet. But it doesn't matter. Just turn off one valve to a heater and check to see what fixture lost it's hot water. You just want to stop the flow of water through the heater so it can happen on either side of it.
As for pressure I don't like going by "feels like". The shower head spray pattern or even your mood can affect how it feels. Get a pitcher and hold it under his and her shower and see how long it takes each to fill the pitcher. That will give you a hard, unambiguous fact that one is getting more water than the other. If hers fills more slowly then you know for certain that it is flowing less water.
Once we know what water heater is feeding what shower and confirm that less water is getting to one we can get serious about the problem.
As for pressure I don't like going by "feels like". The shower head spray pattern or even your mood can affect how it feels. Get a pitcher and hold it under his and her shower and see how long it takes each to fill the pitcher. That will give you a hard, unambiguous fact that one is getting more water than the other. If hers fills more slowly then you know for certain that it is flowing less water.
Once we know what water heater is feeding what shower and confirm that less water is getting to one we can get serious about the problem.
#5
12-14-17, 07:48 AM
I confirmed that the north side WH which services the in-floor heating system also services just my shower head in our master bath, and from checking all other faucets/showers this north side WH only services my shower head and the in-floor heating system. The South side WH serves all other faucets and showers including my wife's. This south side WH is on the opposite end of the house from the master bath.
In regards to pressure on my wife's side, the shower heads in the master bath are exactly the same. My wife's has a very noticeable difference in pressure on an almost day to day basis. A simple time measurement with a pitcher confirmed as you suggested. Today the pressure was noticeably better after the 5 minute mark. I think this is due to the well pump turning on. Which makes me think the reservoir tank diaphragm is not quite up to par any longer being 15 years old. What can I do besides adding a 2nd HW heater back in here and replacing the reservoir tank to bring pressure back to normal and increase the volume of hot water?
In regards to pressure on my side of the shower, pressure is definitely less than my wife's. Not too surprising I guess as they're fed from different WHs but they should still be somewhat close with all roads leading back to the well pump and reservoir tank right? I've taken a few pictures of the north side WH which serves just my shower head. The plumbing for the in-floor heat system has multiple Grundfos pumps and a small reservoir pressure tank. I'm assuming this system is what causes my pressure to be low.
One more quick item, what type of valve in the picture is covered by all of the build up? I'd like to replace that as I just noticed it is slowly leaking.
In regards to pressure on my wife's side, the shower heads in the master bath are exactly the same. My wife's has a very noticeable difference in pressure on an almost day to day basis. A simple time measurement with a pitcher confirmed as you suggested. Today the pressure was noticeably better after the 5 minute mark. I think this is due to the well pump turning on. Which makes me think the reservoir tank diaphragm is not quite up to par any longer being 15 years old. What can I do besides adding a 2nd HW heater back in here and replacing the reservoir tank to bring pressure back to normal and increase the volume of hot water?
In regards to pressure on my side of the shower, pressure is definitely less than my wife's. Not too surprising I guess as they're fed from different WHs but they should still be somewhat close with all roads leading back to the well pump and reservoir tank right? I've taken a few pictures of the north side WH which serves just my shower head. The plumbing for the in-floor heat system has multiple Grundfos pumps and a small reservoir pressure tank. I'm assuming this system is what causes my pressure to be low.
One more quick item, what type of valve in the picture is covered by all of the build up? I'd like to replace that as I just noticed it is slowly leaking.
#6
12-14-17, 09:50 AM
Group Moderator
I would definetely make sure you have an accurate pressure gauge on your water system and have an accurate tire pressure gauge. With the well pump breaker off open a faucet until all water flow stops. Now adjust the air pressure in your pressure tank to be 2-3 psi less than the pressure your pump turns on. When properly set you will really have to pay attention to notice pressure fluctuations as the pump cycles off and on.
After that the distance from the water heater to your wife's shower is the likely reason it takes so long to get hot water. She has to run out all the cold water in the lines before the hot water gets there. About the only thing to help that would be to tie her shower into the other water heater so it doesn't have to bring hot water so far, or you can install a circulation pump. The circulation pump will keep hot water closer to her shower so she won't waste so much water but all the piping between then will become a radiator heating your basement so there is an energy penalty in addition to the electricity for the pump.
Earlier you mentioned that her water goes cold after several minutes. Does the same thing happen with other fixtures fed by that heater? Is that water heater gas or electric? If it's electric one element might not be working (thermostat or burned out element) or it could be a broken pickup tub inside the heater. If it's a gas heater then it might also be a broken pickup tube.
After that the distance from the water heater to your wife's shower is the likely reason it takes so long to get hot water. She has to run out all the cold water in the lines before the hot water gets there. About the only thing to help that would be to tie her shower into the other water heater so it doesn't have to bring hot water so far, or you can install a circulation pump. The circulation pump will keep hot water closer to her shower so she won't waste so much water but all the piping between then will become a radiator heating your basement so there is an energy penalty in addition to the electricity for the pump.
Earlier you mentioned that her water goes cold after several minutes. Does the same thing happen with other fixtures fed by that heater? Is that water heater gas or electric? If it's electric one element might not be working (thermostat or burned out element) or it could be a broken pickup tub inside the heater. If it's a gas heater then it might also be a broken pickup tube.
#7
12-14-17, 11:36 AM
I will work on the pressure tank tomorrow if I'm able to and report back.
We do use the circulation pump off of the south side water heater to bring/keep hot water to my wife's sink faster. I have it set on a timer for the evening, I've tried using the circulation pump in the morning but it doesn't help my wife with hot water and even though I haven't measured it, it seems like pressure falls off faster or is very low and stays low. Her shower temp doesn't go cold in the morning but it does start hot and taper off to the point where she switches to mine after 5-7 minutes, the weird thing is that it doesn't happen every morning but enough that I hear about it a 3 or 4 times a week. Gas water heater.
We do use the circulation pump off of the south side water heater to bring/keep hot water to my wife's sink faster. I have it set on a timer for the evening, I've tried using the circulation pump in the morning but it doesn't help my wife with hot water and even though I haven't measured it, it seems like pressure falls off faster or is very low and stays low. Her shower temp doesn't go cold in the morning but it does start hot and taper off to the point where she switches to mine after 5-7 minutes, the weird thing is that it doesn't happen every morning but enough that I hear about it a 3 or 4 times a week. Gas water heater.
Last edited by msu50000; 12-14-17 at 12:03 PM.
#8
12-17-17, 06:22 AM
Dane,
The pump guage next to the tank shows 45psi, tire pressure guage on reservoir shows 42psi. When the pump turns on the guage outside the tank goes to 65psi and then very slowly comes back to 45psi. Per your previous post, I should shut off pump, open faucet to bleed off remaining pressure and then bring reservoir tank up to about 62psi?
The pump guage next to the tank shows 45psi, tire pressure guage on reservoir shows 42psi. When the pump turns on the guage outside the tank goes to 65psi and then very slowly comes back to 45psi. Per your previous post, I should shut off pump, open faucet to bleed off remaining pressure and then bring reservoir tank up to about 62psi?
#9
12-17-17, 02:57 PM
Group Moderator
No, the air pressure in the tank, when the water system is totally bled down, should be 2-3 psi less than the pressure at which the pump turns on. Whatever pressure you see after the pump has turned on doesn't matter. There can be pressure fluctuations as water at rest is forced to move when the pump kicks on.
The circulation pump only works when it's running. If your wife showers in the morning is makes no sens to only run the pump in the evening. It should run when you are expecting hot water to be needed like for morning showers.
The circulation pump only works when it's running. If your wife showers in the morning is makes no sens to only run the pump in the evening. It should run when you are expecting hot water to be needed like for morning showers.
#10
12-22-17, 04:15 AM
Update
Finally had a bit of time to work on the tank and pump this week. Didn't have to add much air to the tank, maybe 3psi. It's now set 2 psi below when the pump kicks on. Wife says the pressure in her shower is good and holds longer. Pressure in my shower still varies.
I can handle it, at this point the wife is good. So I'm going to call that a partial win. Thanks for the help Pilot.
I can handle it, at this point the wife is good. So I'm going to call that a partial win. Thanks for the help Pilot.
