No hot water in sink and shower but hot water heater good

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  #1  
Old 09-27-18, 06:13 PM
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No hot water in sink and shower but hot water heater good

Help!!. So my unit has 2 bathrooms. Up stairs bathroom stopped having hot water in both sink and shower 2 weeks ago. No repairs or work done on house in past 6 months. Working fine before. Both shower handle cartridges have been checked by plumber and are good. Here is where it gets weird. When hot water is shut off at water heater --- kitchen and down stairs bathroom have no hot water BUT upstairs bathroom has cold water coming out hot side wirh good pressure. Water temp is cold but does seem to be different temp then the water coming out of cold side.

It is a very old 2 story house 1910. Where should I look next??? Plumber is stumped and so am I
 
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  #2  
Old 09-27-18, 06:50 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

upstairs bathroom has cold water coming out hot side with good pressure.
Yes.... that's normal as the faucet shares a common spout.

We have to assume it was working correctly in the past so what is the exact problem.....
1) you aren't getting any water out of the hot water side or
2) the water never gets hot out of the hot water side ?
Other sinks in the house are working correctly ?

If shutting the water off at the hot water heater stops water flow to the hot water taps..... it sounds like the water needs to run a little longer to get hot.
 
  #3  
Old 09-28-18, 06:04 AM
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Your answer number 2. Water never gets hot even after running for minutes and minutes. It worked just fine up untiln 2 weeks ago.house only 1100 sq ft and hot water heater on main floor in middle of house so not a great distance to travel. Same renters in the house. Rest of house has hot water. Once again, when shut off valve from hot water heater is turned off, both other sinks and shower have NO water (as it should) BUT upstairs bathroom still has water in both sink and shower And cartridge has been replaced twice. Made no difference. So where else would there be something in a wall located. Walls are plaster and no access to view pipes.
 
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Old 09-28-18, 06:59 AM
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Are you shutting off the cold water supply to the water heater?
 
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Old 09-28-18, 07:46 AM
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If you the test mentioned by turning off the water supply to the water heater. Then turn on the hot water at the problem fixtures. You should get no water.

Turn the water back on to the water heater. Then go to the problem fixtures. You should notice a slight increase in flow as you go from all cold to warm because the faucet is letting hot and cold water through the fixture.

A few times I have seen debris clog hot water lines. It's usually hot water I assume because of minderal deposits breaking loose inside the heater. They usually get stuck and clog at valves and fittings. In the hot water lines, with the hot water faucets open and calling for hot water, I move the valves from full open to full closed several times. Simetimes you can feel that the valve is jammed by debris and sometimes the opening and closing chews up the debris and lets it pass (which means you need to clean the aerators/screens at the faucet and shower head).
 
  #6  
Old 09-29-18, 06:03 AM
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Might be another hot water heater tucked away somewhere for second floor bathroom (maybe some kind of on-demand heater that has failed?). Otherwise, IMHO, the story doesn’t make much sense.
 
  #7  
Old 09-29-18, 06:27 PM
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One other question. When the hot water is shut off, and the downstairs bath has no hot water (obviously), does BOTH the shower and sink run cold water out the hot side?

I can definitely see a cartridge going bad, or maybe something in the housing that is causing two cartridges to not work correctly. But if the sink is doing the same thing, that means there's definitely a piping issue.

Your shower is a single faucet/mixer, what about the upstairs sink faucet?
 
  #8  
Old 10-01-18, 07:50 AM
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The sink in upstairs bathroom is two handled. The shower faucet is single/mixer. And yes - both have water coming out the hot side even when water is shut of to hot water heater. No there is second water heater. This house is very small and no place to put one. If a pipe issue, not sure what that means since no one has changed any pipes in decades in this house. I have owned it for 3 years. This is an old house (1910) in ohio. and all walls are stucco.and no attic space over shower so I am going to have to cut into walls. My first thought is obviously wall behind upstair shower which is same wall that has sink on the back side of. . To me, there still has to be something in the mixer, joints. whatever behind the shower but the plumbers seem to feel they have ruled anything out like that. .

The first plumber said that when he replaced the initial cartridge in the upstairs bathroom, the old one came apart in his hands. Couldn't a small piece have gotten caught somewhere and is now keeping even new cartridges from working properly???? It just seems like there aren't that many places to be looking but the now 3 plumbers that have been to my house all act like they have no idea where to look next, I am sure they are not wild about having me cut into a wall to find out there is nothing back there.

For more information - The shower is a one piece fiberglass insert but at a glance it looks very old,. very yelloed with age. It obviuosly is not as old as the rest of the 1910 house, but it clearly has been either added on or updated in the last 30 - 50 years. It appears they took a 2 bedroom 1 bath house and added a second bathroom to what would have been a storage space since there is a very strange step down step to even get into the bathroom and the ceiling is clearly the exact same as the roof line, and lower then the rest of the upstairs bedrooms. No attic above, and no extra space. Ugh!!!

Further information on house - the downstairs bathroom is 2 handled but the kitchen sink s a single hand. downstair's tub handle is also single and has been given a new cartridge also. Now the kitch single handle has not been given a cartrige but it is furthest from the hot water heater and furthest from the upstairs bathroom, I guess I can pay to change that too. I agree - it doesn't make sense. But, there can't be that many places in an old house that hot and cold get the option of mixing. I saw on line something about an anti-sweat valve in regards to toilets? is that something that might be going on hear and if so - where would a valve like that be since none in open space.
 
  #9  
Old 10-01-18, 07:53 AM
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l cut off hot water coming directly from the hot water tank. Can go back and shut of cold water going into the tank but don't see what the would get.

Once again when hot water directly from the tank is shut off. All downstairs plumbing has not hot water BUT upstairs still does. Also when water is cut off the the entire house - all water stops coming out from any location in house ( thank god!)
 
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Old 10-01-18, 08:23 AM
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If you closed the valve at the water heater and some fixtures no longer get hot water but some do indicates that there is another hot water source. You probably have two water heaters.
 
  #11  
Old 10-02-18, 07:41 AM
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Guys could there be a tempering valve hidden in the wall somewhere supplying both the upstairs sink and shower? If there were such a valve installed, and it did fail, could that explain things? Seems like it would fit. But it sure seems like the plumbers would have found that valve – you would think.

@Boogreg –

I would check for an access panel that might be hiding a tempering valve for the upstairs bathroom. The valve would have a hot pipe and cold pipe coming in, and then an output pipe that then branches and goes to the hot side of the sink and the hot side of the shower. If the valve fails you could possibly get only cold water out of that valve and turning off the hot water at the hot water heater would not stop water flow to the hot side of the sink and shower upstairs – the water out of the valve would be cold but would still feed both the hot side of the shower and the hot side of the sink.

I think that’s correct. If not I’m sure the other guys will correct that idea.
 
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Old 10-02-18, 10:27 AM
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Guys could there be a tempering valve hidden in the wall somewhere
I think that may be the only answer. Noting that single-handle faucets can sometimes function as tempering valves when not working correctly. Maybe there's another single-handle cartridge that is causing all these problems?
 
  #13  
Old 10-02-18, 03:14 PM
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Hi,
Zorfdt may found the problem. You may want to shut off the angle stops on all the other sinks, one sink at a time and see if the cures the problem. If you find a sink that cures the problem then fix the cartridge in that sink. I don't know if you can isolate the tubs.
Good Luck Woodbutcher
 
  #14  
Old 10-03-18, 06:58 AM
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That does seem like a real good theory. But what is puzzling is that the plumber replaced the cartridge in the upstairs bathroom single handle shower valve, and that bathroom sink has separate hot and cold valves, but the problem still exists. Downstairs there is just one single handle valve at the kitchen sink. So where would the cross-connect from cold to hot be? Or could a bad valve at the kitchen sink cause the problem?
 
  #15  
Old 10-03-18, 07:13 AM
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Assuming it is a bad faucet cartridge somewhere, it may be a little tedious but if you open the upstairs hot faucet and get cold water, let it run for a bit to get it nice and cold and then while it is running, check the hot water line between each faucet in the house and its nearby shutoff and see which one is getting cold. That will likely be the faucet with the bad cartridge.

- Peter
 
  #16  
Old 10-03-18, 08:24 AM
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the downstairs bathroom is 2 handled but the kitchen sink s a single hand. downstair's tub handle is also single and has been given a new cartridge also. Now the kitch single handle has not been given a cartrige but it is furthest from the hot water heater and furthest from the upstairs bathroom, I guess I can pay to change that too. I agree - it doesn't make sense. But, there can't be that many places in an old house that hot and cold get the option of mixing. I saw on line something about an anti-sweat valve in regards to toilets? is that something that might be going on hear and if so - where would a valve like that be since none in open space.
Well I apologize! I didn’t read boogreg’s post well enough. IMHO he’s had his finger right on the puzzle (my red) from the beginning.

(btw – Also I would think an anti-sweat valve for the toilet would absolutely be hidden from view in some manner. At least that’s the way I would do it.) and I would do the checks the other guys outlined.
 

Last edited by zoesdad; 10-03-18 at 09:02 AM.
  #17  
Old 10-03-18, 03:35 PM
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Hi,
Shut off the washing machine valves also.
Woodbutcher
 
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