So, got a call from daughter. Water bill over double the average. Told her to go out and pull up cover on water meter and see if it is showing flow with all usage turned off. After taking cover off and scraping away some mud she said there's nothing showing on the meter. I clarified she was saying a blank screen. Had her send me some pictures. Sure enough, blank screen. Told her to (a) ask city why there's no display, and (b) how can they record her usage with what appears to be a dead meter.

Am I missing anything? From as much as I can see from the pics (not very clear) the meter is identified as a "Neptune E-Coder". Oh, she also lifted the lid on neighbor's adjacent meter and it is blank. Near as I can remember (I've chased some usage there before) there was always data being displayed, both cumulative and flow.

Geez I love having my daughter being a homeowner on the other side of the state.

 

Those sound like remote reading meters which means they can be read without lifting the cover. There would be no display as there is no power. They may possible display when the meter reader demands a reading.

 

This Neptune E-Coder manual says that it uses solar to power the LCD. If the sun isn't enough, try shining a flashlight on it to activate the display (page 6 of the manual, page 20 of the PDF).

Beyond that, I can't help with the newfangled stuff. We still have an analog meter, that stopped a couple years ago. City's charging us based on our average usage before it died, until they can get around to replacing it. I'm not holding my breath.

Oh, and here's another user guide I found: https://southstormont.com/_uploads/5ent55g4h.pdf

 

Thanks, guys.

I know I've taken the lid off the housing before and seen the display lit. Always wondered how it was powered. Begs the question, though, on how it gets solar power INSIDE it's housing?

Also, I remember during rainy periods, the housing gets about half filled with water and stays that way. No way it's getting any solar energy.

Will wait and see what the city tells her, I guess. After that might have to have her call a leak finder if she's really using that much water.

 

Just looked at Squirrel's link. The one's shown on page 2 appear to be the exact model. I have to say, though, that to the best of my memory that is NOT the meter I remember seeing previously. I'm thinking maybe she's going to find it's been replaced. Could maybe have been done while she was at work on a weekday and she might never have noticed signs of the work being done? Going to have to coach her through reading the flow rate to see if she's leaking. Will send her the link for starters which should help.

Thanks for that link, Squirrel.

 

And after reading it, I get that the meter itself is not "powered"; you only need to power it up to look at the display.

 

No problem! For what it's worth, the installation manual says it has a lithium battery, I guess to handle the remote reading functions, if it's so equipped. The LCD display is solar powered. Never knew such a simple thing could be made so complicated.

Also, if it was changed out, I wonder if there was a mishap with the readings being transferred over, either in the meter or in the billing software. Like swapping an instrument cluster in a car, but not resetting the odometer. Though I'm not even sure if that's possible with these things.

 

My 2 cents is that when you get a high water bill -- check the toilets with food coloring. Put some in the tank, it should not seep into the bowl.

 

They recently replaced our meters with the remote read digital meters. We had low water pressure one evening last week and I woke up about midnight hearing the water heater making strange noises. We had no water at all and I shut of the breaker. Couldn't go back to sleep worrying that maybe a pipe had busted going up the hill so I drove down to the meter. It had the digital numbers lit up when I flipped the little lid on the meter. There was a small wire run into a tube like thing - I assume that the antenna [inside the box] ?? Anyway, the numbers were lit up and no visible way for it to get power so I'd assume it's battery operated. If her meter's battery is dead how could they read it?

 

Didn't see the part about the lithium battery, was wondering how the heck it did the electronic functions. She's going to talk to city today. I can't say with 100% certainty that it's not the same meter I remember, but it just doesn't look familiar. Surprised they haven't come up with an "app" to allow people to monitor their own meter without having to go to the meter.

Was reading the section about it having a leak detection function. Not sure how that works, but I told her when she was checking for flow on the display to look for that icon, too.

My last visit over was for toilet repairs (fill valves in both BR's and the flapper in her master), so this may be leftover usage from leakage before the fix. Not sure what the billing period is. This appears to be a considerable extra usage, though, rather than flapper leakage, etc. Will post back on progress.

 

Just exchanged some thoughts via text and she said the bill breakdown has odd entries that she's never seen before, among other things (and I'm not sure exactly what she means) it has "Under water & sewer, double charge on base charge". Also something about "Block 1, Block 2, Block 3" under "Water". Can't wait to see what she finds out.

Does not appear to be charges for unpaid previous bill, shows her last payment on time.

 

Our water bill adds sewer, solid waste, and storm water as add-on items.

 

The Block 1, 2, 3 might be tiered pricing. Our usage is billed at one price up to, say, 8,000 gallons, then 8,001 up to the next tier costs more per gallon, and so on. But I think it's definitely up to the city to explain it all.

 

Without permanent power...... there'd be no way to communicate. Usually when they come around and "remote read".... they either transmit a signal that kicks out a reply or activate some type of hand held coil held over the meter pit that inductively causes the meter to operate/read out. Similar to EZ Pass on the highways.


Here the water rate is tiered which makes logical sense and Block 1, 2 and 3 is just that.
Property block 1, property block 2 and property block 3.

 

Thanks, guys, Yeah that would make sense on the tiered billing. FP&L does that with our electric on my side of state. [We're on well, so don't mess with water meters except daughter's]

SO, got some answers:

1. No, meter was NOT replaced. Guess I just forgot what it looked like. Will get to eyeball it in two weeks when we're over there. No doubt when I pull the lid and actually look down there I'll go, "Oh, yeah, that's the same meter".

2. She says after reading the flyer on reading the meter she sees no flow indicated and as far as she can tell there's no icon displayed for leakage [would love to know the technology behind the algorithm that makes that work, but I'm guessing long-duration flow at a constant rate, as opposed to short duration like a toilet refilling and then shutting off].

2a. She also took a reading before going to work yesterday and on return. Total usage had gone up by .25 gal (1 quart). Not sure where that would be going unless still have some toilet seepage. Odd it didn't trip the leak icon on the meter if it is a leak.

3. Near as we can tell, unless she missed something like a stuck flapper running continuously, the usage had to be from pre-toilet repair that I did. The time-frame appears to be right. Told her to do the food color test just to make sure toilets are tight now.

4. Hadn't thought of the powered/unpowered angle, Pete. We even have one of those devices stuck to windshield of wifey's car (SunPass). It's a sealed unit and we've had it for years. Don't know how they read her meter, she's said she's never seen anyone at the meter, so I suppose maybe just drive-by?

All in all, pretty educational. I only have to hold out for another 1 year and 2 weeks and then our future SIL gets to handle these issues. He's not quite as handy as me, but he's better than the average millennial and fast learner. Unfortunately they currently live at opposite ends of a big county, so not convenient for him to stop by to look at stuff like this.

 

The leak detection symbol/algorithm is explained this way:

OFF: No leak indicated.

Flashing: Intermittent leak indicated. Water used during at least 50 of the 96 15-minute intervals during the previous 24-hour period.

Continuous ON: Continuous leak indicated. Water used during all 96 15-minute intervals during the previous 24 hour period.