Basement floor drain backs up from kitchen drain. Are they connected?

Reply

  #1  
Old 11-11-18, 05:05 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
Basement floor drain backs up from kitchen drain. Are they connected?

I have a two story home. Two kitchens, on both levels, drain into 1 drain line to the basement.

(I believe there used to be two drains into the basement, as there is a 2nd 'open hole' in basement floor, and there used to be a 2nd vent in the roof.)

Anyways, on occasion, I get water coming up from the floor drain (which is about 2 feet from the kitchen drain line, and 1 foot from the 'open hole'. I think that water coming up is from the kitchen drain, as I did see some noodles in the water. But I also see some brown 'sludge' like 'mud?'.

I am attaching a picture of the drain pipe, open hole, and floor drain. Are these all attached? (House built in 1928).

I've been able to plunge the floor drain, and get 'stuff' out of it. I've also put a hose with a 'bladder' sprayer in it down all three (drain line, 'open hole', and floor drain) and run the water for several minutes. But when I tried to put a small, hand held 1/4 inch snake, down the floor drain, I think I may have grabbed some mud? Same thing when I put snake down the cleanout on the drain pipe.

Oh, and there is standing water in the 'open hole' and floor drain, even while I run the hose water down the kitchen drain line.

Can someone explain if these openings (kitchen drain, 'open hole', and drain are tied together?
Is standing water in the floor drain, and 'open hole' normal?
Why did plunging floor drain seem to get sink drain flowing, but spraying hose down drain pipe seem to not disturb the standing water in the floor drain?
Could that 'sludge' be dirt/mud?
Any advice/explantion of what is going on would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Matt
 
Attached Images       
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 11-12-18, 06:05 PM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 34
If your pulling mud out of the drain you have a collapsed drain pipe and itís affecting the kitchen and floor drain. Unfortunately breaking the concrete and locating the collapse is the only option. Changing the kitchen connection to new pipe is never a mistake.
 
  #3  
Old 11-13-18, 05:50 AM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 18,303
You have a clogged drain line. Possibly a crushed line or it could just be from 80 years crud buildup.

We on the Internet far away can't magically tell you how the pipes are routed underneath your concrete. It is possible they are tied together but with old houses you never know for sure just by glancing at it. This is a good situation for a professional. They can auger out the drain line to clear the clog and they may recommend a camera inspection to find out what the pipes are doing underground.
 
  #4  
Old 11-13-18, 11:38 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
Braking concrete up sounds like a big job. Not sure I would want to try to do that. For sure, not unless I know the line is damaged. Other than a camera inspection, is there any other way to know the condition of the line?

How hard a job is it to break up concrete? What tools are used?
 
  #5  
Old 11-13-18, 12:03 PM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 18,303
A good plumber will be able to "feel" as they auger out the drain line and might have some clue about the cause. A camera is the best way to know however. Don't freak out about cutting out concrete until you hear from the plumber. You might just have a simple clog.
 
  #6  
Old 11-13-18, 12:09 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 20,997
The plumbing "should be" buried deep enough to be below the concrete. So removing the concrete it pretty easy. You make a wide pathway toward the stack and cut a path maybe 16" wide... with a diamond blade saw... only cut 3 1/2 deep.... cross cuts can be used to make it easier to remove. Then knock them out with a sledgehammer. The first hole is hardest to make.
 
  #7  
Old 11-13-18, 02:00 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,770
I know you have an old house so maybe a pro is needed, but I rented one of these East Rooters twice and cleared my main drain to the septic. I think they are pretty easy to use and even if it didnít clear the drain it might tell you where the blockage is and you might be a little more prepared when you call in a pro.

If you just go slow, just going a little at a time as shown in the video, I donít think you could get into any trouble. (You would use it on the main drain not the floor drain). Just my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnHVZ6nff-8
 
  #8  
Old 11-22-18, 12:25 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
Xsleeper,

Would a circular saw be used to cut the cement? I've never done that, seems like the cement would be difficult to cut?
 
  #9  
Old 11-22-18, 12:28 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
Zoesdad, Thanks. Good video on using the power snake. I got a lot out if it!

I am considering renting one. What would happen if I have collapsed pipe and I am snaking?
 
  #10  
Old 11-22-18, 12:33 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
PilotDane, I'm thinking about renting the power snake. I just wonder if I might cause a bigger problem if it's not just a simple clog?

I was investigate water hydro-jetting. (Basically its a power washer with a special hose and jet tip made for plumbing).

I wonder which method, mechanical snake or hydro-jetting, would be preferable?
 
  #11  
Old 11-22-18, 12:39 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 20,997
You usually want to rent a saw with a diamond blade that is big enough to cut ALL the way through the concrete.

You might be able to cut 2" deep with a skilsaw but it might ruin the saw in the process. You also need to saw it wet so it's best to use the right tool for the job. Makes it easy.
 
  #12  
Old 11-22-18, 02:17 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,770
I am considering renting one. What would happen if I have collapsed pipe and I am snaking?
I think if you just go slow working the snake in a little at a time, then if you hit a collapsed pipe you will feel the difference and recognize that the snake won’t go any farther. You can count off the feet as you reel the snake back in and you would know where your “total” blockage is.

But I know it is possible to get a snake caught. I think it even happens to plumbers sometimes when there is something wrong with the pipe other than a clog. So there is some risk involved.

A good plumber will be able to "feel" as they auger out the drain line
significant I guess what PD said above. That is the advantage a pro would have over us, but I took a chance a few times and it paid off.
 
  #13  
Old 11-22-18, 04:41 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
XSleeper,

I didn't think about saw rentals. That's an idea I will look into if needed.

So, how thick would the basement cement be? How far down would the drain pipe be?
 
  #14  
Old 11-22-18, 04:45 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
Zoesdad, So renting a snake would give me important information about where the pipe might be broken - even I don't just have a clog to be cleared - Id' still know where the bad pipe is! Or begins.
 
  #15  
Old 11-22-18, 04:46 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 20,997
Depends on when the floor was poured. If it's original 1928, it might be thin... like 2". But we have no way of knowing. 3 1/2 to 4" is pretty common nowadays, but back then they often were more interested in saving a few bucks.

No way to know how deep, but usually it's not more than a few inches under the cenent. Obviously it gets deeper the farther a run goes toward the main.
 
  #16  
Old 11-22-18, 06:02 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
Pilot dane. Thanks. I tend to fret and worry about things too much. I like to know how I'll have to respond to potential problems. But sometimes I just worry myself too much.
 
  #17  
Old 11-23-18, 09:19 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,770
If it’s not a broken pipe or tree roots the auger would probably clear it for you. Do you have trees around the area where the main line runs? Also, I think if you had a broken pipe there might be other signs that the pipe was broken, like smelly water outside or even in the basement. I’m not sure though that you would get a wet concrete floor in the basement if the pipe was broken, but maybe the other guys would know.

I just noticed the point Audioslave22 made in post #2. If you are seeing mud then that would seem like the pipe is in fact broken. Maybe then a pro is needed as others have suggested.
 
  #18  
Old 11-23-18, 10:03 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
if use a 1/2" snake, and if I have a broke pipe, not just a blockage, what kind of risk am I taking?

Would I see clay/mud on the snake?
Could I break the snake and get it stuck in the pipe?
Will the snake just bind up?
Could I send pieces of broke pipe further down the system and end up blocking more important downstream drains (in my case, toilets, tubs, etc)?

Would I be better off trying a water jetting tool, instead of the mechanical snake?
 
  #19  
Old 11-23-18, 10:58 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by zoesdad View Post
If it’s not a broken pipe or tree roots the auger would probably clear it for you. Do you have trees around the area where the main line runs? Also, I think if you had a broken pipe there might be other signs that the pipe was broken, like smelly water outside or even in the basement. I’m not sure though that you would get a wet concrete floor in the basement if the pipe was broken, but maybe the other guys would know.

I just noticed the point Audioslave22 made in post #2. If you are seeing mud then that would seem like the pipe is in fact broken. Maybe then a pro is needed as others have suggested.
This kitchen drain is at the rear of the house. All other drains, in particular the toilets and tubs, are towards the front of the house, and are working fine. I am almost positive the house drains to the front, and the street. So I don't think it is a problem with the main drain,, since toilet/tubs working OK.

This water does smell bad. Like 'rotting something'. I don't know what. Maybe rotting food? Dead animal?

I don't know if it's mud I plunged out, or what? (See picture #3 and #6 below. (#3 is wet, #6 is after it dried)).

I tried using a hand snake, 1/4" snake, and the tip got twisted and bent. I am worried I hit mud...

I'd like to try to resolve myself, and either a water jet snake, or a 1/2" power snake, before I call a plumber.

I can rent a 1/2" power snake, and I can also rent a power washer - and buy a water jetting hose and water jetting tip, to try either of those first.

I'm just a bit worried I might screw up something that would absolutely then require I call in a plumbing pro. (I wouldn't mind letting someone else do this, but money is a concern now).

I'm looking for advice as to how to proceed, and what to look for as I 'experiment' my way though this. And worried about my questions in reply #18 below ...
 
  #20  
Old 11-23-18, 12:15 PM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 18,303
I would rent an auger/snake as I doubt you can rent a proper jetter setup. Jetter tips can work on home sized pressure washers but only against lighter clogs. A general use pressure washer simply doesn't generate the pressure and volume (GPH) needed for heavy cleaning.

Another option is to find a plumber that has a camera. Pay for them to clear the line. Then depending on what the plumber finds you can decide then if it's worth the money for a camera inspection.

If the plumber is honest and good they will be able to tell you if it's just a clog or a collapsed or broken pipe by what they feel and bring back with the auger with better than 50% accuracy. They won't be able to tell you for certain with an auger but a skilled person can make a pretty good judgement. No sense in paying for a camera inspection if it's obviously a simple clog. If they are not certain or think it might be a collapsed line then you can decide if it's worth paying for the camera. After all, a camera doesn't actually fix or do anything. It only shows what you've got. If the plumber with the auger says "that feels like a collapsed line" then you might skip the camera and go right for repair.
 
  #21  
Old 11-23-18, 12:32 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,770
Well I just saw PDís post, and I know his advice is always good, but since I already typed this -here it goes.

I was a little sloppy in reading these posts. I thought this was a blockage in the main drain. But since itís only the kitchen drain and basement floor drain that arenít draining then it wouldnít be a problem with the main drain and I donít think trees etc. as I mentioned would have anything to do with it. The problem would probably be under that basement floor as others have said.

But I donít think you would use a 1/4 inch snake going into that kitchen drain cleanout. I think you would be using something bigger, a min-rooter or a snake with a 3/8Ē cable, not a 1/4 cableĒ. For the big 3Ē or 4Ē drains I think they use a larger snake, something like a 1/2Ē or 3/4Ē cable.

I guess if you have mud in the pipes under the basement floor then that would point to a broken pipe as was pointed out by others.
 
  #22  
Old 11-25-18, 08:04 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
Is there an easy way to prove the vent is not blocked, that does not require climbing on the roof (2 story home, steep roof, I would die), or does not require taking pipes apart and trying to look up the pipe?

With a water jetting hose, and a rented power washer, hpw man psi, or gallons per minute, would be adequate to clear a plugged pipe?
 
  #23  
Old 11-26-18, 09:30 AM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 18,303
First, vents rarely clog so a clog in the drain line is much more likely. A clogged vent line will cause something to drain slow or gurgle but it will not cause water to back up or to back up somewhere else.

I would check with plumbers and septic tank companies in your area to see if any of them have a jetter. Baring that look for as big a pressure washer you can find. Hopefully something putting out 3 gpm and 3'000 psi or more will work for a soft clog. More power is needed for bigger drain lines. If you have roots or a broken line then you'll need more than a residential pressure washer can do.

Then you'll need access to the drain line from the street/septic side of the clog. You must attack the clog from the downstream side when using a jetter. Afterall, you are pumping a lot of water in the drain and it has to go somewhere.
 
  #24  
Old 11-26-18, 11:50 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
I did not think about where the water jetting extra water goes. I just assumed it blasted a hole quickly and then would go down the pipe to the street drain. I did not consider if it was a tough block the water would come back up in the basement if it failed to blast through the clog. Good point!

You got me thinking though, the two times I've actually plunged the drain, while using one of those 'bladders' that screw onto a garden hose and 'pulse' water, that I sent a good amount of water down the drains. The last time I plunged and sprayed, and the water seemed to 'go down' the pipe, I then ran the sprayer 'bladder' (Drain King is what it was called, I think), and then also just ran water from the bare hose, for about 15 minutes, and the water was going 'somewhere' - it was not backing up again like it just started to again. Would you think this is more an indication of the pipe plugging again, or a broken pipe? I was wondering if the pipe was broken, would the water just get soaked up into the dirt/sand around a broken pipe? And could it 'soak up' 15 minutes worth?

I was thinking about that venting question, and remembered there is a pvc cleanout on the pipe before it enters the floor. I was thinking that I could prove the venting was ok by running water down the pipe from the kitchen sink while I had the cap removed from the cleanout. And then if the water flowed with the cap removed, that might mean the venting was occuring at the cleanout. Then if I recapped the cleanout, and the water started coming up he drain, that might indicate a vent issue on the vent coming out the roof. But now that you said that poor venting does not cause backups - I guess this idea is invalid?
 
  #25  
Old 11-26-18, 11:55 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
This is the 'bladder' sprayer I was talking about in the previous post...

Name:  drain king.jpg
Views: 182
Size:  10.3 KB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeCvmZW11l8
 
  #26  
Old 11-26-18, 12:15 PM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 18,303
If you've had to clear the drain before it's a sign of a problem. Either you're putting things down the drain that shouldn't and is forming a clog in good pipe or there are tree roots or a broken pipe catching things causing the clog.

As far as venting there are many other sources of a plumbing vent. Traps are used to prevent fixtures from being vents. If you pull the P trap off a sink then it becomes a trap by allowing air in and out of the drain piping. So, if you really want to test out for a vent issue remove all the water from your toilets and sink traps.
 
  #27  
Old 11-26-18, 12:20 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
Maybe the water jetting idea is not the best for me...based on what you said about attacking it from the down stream side of the clog, instead of the upstream side as I thought I would do.

But for reference, this is what I was looking at for the water jetting idea ....

So, I just checked the specs on the pressure washer that Home depot rents. The electric one is only 1400 PSI and 1.5 GPM - so, maybe not enough pressure?

Home depot also rents gasoline powered wahsers. One is 2700 PSI and 2.4 GPM, the other is 3500 PSI and 3.5 GPM. But I'd have to run those outdoors, and buy a longer hose perhaps.

I was looking at buying the jetter supplies from here https://www.pwmall.com/s-21017-sewer-cleaning

Also, if I have to go in from the other side of the clog, the downstream side, I am not sure which of other several points of access in the basement drains system might attach to the clogged pipe? I have three other floor drains (which are dusty dry - so not likely attached?). I also have another wider floor drain (with a 7.5" cover, and I can see water in it). Then there is the main drain pipe about 15 feet away. Not to mention there are also two sinks for washing machines, and a toilet in my basement.

I wish I knew the layout of all those openings! I sort of remember one of the other 3 floor drains being 'wet' at one point. That would be the one on the same side of the basement as the floor drain that is backing up. I am wondering if the are connected to each other, and then to the main, or if they have separate paths to the main drain?

--------------------

I think I am leaning towards renting a power snake. I talked to this place last week, and they had a 50 foot snake, and I think the cable was 1/2" with a 'U' shaped tip.

I suppose that will either clean the clog, or find a broken pipe? Do you know what I would 'see', or 'feel', if the pipe is indeed broken?

https://www.gardencityrental.com/equ...=8&key=SNAKE50
 
  #28  
Old 11-26-18, 01:33 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
Audioslave22,

Changing the kitchen connection to new pipe is never a mistake.
Are you saying to re reroute the kitchen drain to a different, old, drain that is already in the basement's drain system? (Cause I don't know where I wold reroute it to?)

Or, are you saying to dig up the old cast iron pipe and replace it with a new pipes?
 
  #29  
Old 11-26-18, 03:36 PM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 18,303
If you install a clean out near the curb you can use it to snake or jet back towards the house. If the water is backed-up at the cleanout then it's a city sewer problem. Installing a cleanout just outside your home is the next best thing. It's located shallower so there's less digging and you know it's location better by observing the piping & drains in the house. And, with a cleanout outside you can snake and jet all you want and the mess is outside.

---
Operating a drain snake/auger is a bit like fishing. There is something going on at the other end of the line that you can't see and all you have to go by is the "feel". Unfortunately the only way to learn the feel is with experience.

You'll first feed in the auger without restriction. The will be some "bucking" and the snake may kick a bit as it encounters a bend in the line or a pipe joint. Usually with gentle pressure the turning action will help it find it's way through. Then you'll come to a spot where it sort of stops feeding but you have to feel for it. That might be the clog. You want to keep light to moderate forward pressure to keep the cutter head engaged with the clog but don't apply too much pressure. You don't want the head to bite into anything and stop turning. It if does bite you'll need to be quick to turn off the auger before the snake kinks and ties itself into a knot. Then after working you'll feel it start to feed again as it works through the clog. You can then back it out to see what's clogged in the tip. Tree roots are pretty obvious but if you find white gloopy stuff that's grease and shame on you for putting it down the drain. A broken pipe you won't pull back any evidence but you may find that there is always a "catch" in that area that you can't clear away.
 
  #30  
Old 11-27-18, 06:22 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
I don't see myself putting in an outdoor cleanout, although I like the idea. But I'm in Michigan, and temps are 20's to 30's on a good day. I may consider having that done at some point,, just not right now.

I was thinking, there is one floor drain that is larger than the others. It has a 6.5 inch cover (the others are 4.5"). Three of those four are dry. Dusty even. The one 4" drain backing up, and the 6.5 inch trap, are the only ones that are wet.

Do you think that the 6.5 is on the main drain? Could it be downstream from some, or all of, the other drains and traps? If so, I might be able to water jet from there, as the water would have an escape to the main. Or, I might be bale to snake upstream from that point, in addition to snaking downstream from the kitchen drain pipe cleanout, and the floor drain that is backing up.

Aside from my main problem with the backup, should I be thinking about snaking the other three floor drains - which are completely dry right now? (I did have a flooded basement about3-4 years ago, due to torrential rains we got herein Michigan, which even flooded freeways. The warter was a few inches high, but ultimately drained away. I am now wondering if that flooding left mud/dirt in the lines, and perhaps that is why 3 of the 5 drains are dry? And maybe the dirt I think I've seen in the drain backing up was from that flood - which would be better than it being from a broken pipe!

Thanks for the description of running a snake, and what I might expect. It does help me understand what I'm getting into. (PS: I try to not put any food, or grease, down the drain, ever. Food goes into a plastic bag, and stored in the fridge until trash day. Learned that lesson the hard way, a long time ago.)
 
  #31  
Old 11-27-18, 06:28 PM
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 18,303
Some old homes had a main house trap. It's possible the big thing in the floor is a cleanout for it. Also, some homes have a check valve on the main drain line which usually has an access for clearing clogs. Also, some old homes have the floor drains and gutter downspouts tied into the sanitary sewer. Basically it could be almost anything and you're the only one who can find out.
 
  #32  
Old 11-28-18, 12:12 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
I tried to remove that 6.5" floor drain cover. It seems rusted in place. I thought I might try running a snake through it and see if it goes towards the backed up floor drain, in addition to snaking through that floor drain.

I also attempted to turn the caps on the cast iron clean outs with no luck.

Is there a trick to get these covers removed. Spray? Wire brushing? Persuader bar? Chisel? Heat? (Kind of afraid of flames at those areas though - isn't there methane fumes around waste pipes?)

I've seen different tips for the snakes. One place only has a U shaped tip. Home depot proved a selection, including a swirly rat tail, spade, and C shaped scraper. Can I use only type? Which might be good for me?
 
  #33  
Old 11-29-18, 10:23 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
I got a shop vac, and vacuumed out the dirt that was in the 3 floor drains, and the water that was in the 4th floor drain.

Once they were cleaned out, I was surprised to see that none of the 4 drains appeared to be traps. The just appeared to be 90 degree elbows.

I poured water down all 4, and the three that were dry, showed the water drained completely away. I did feel a bit of a cool draft from 2 of the 3 dry drains. This made me think the draft was coming through those pipes, so they are not blocked. Does that make sense?

The only one that held water, that I put into it, was the 4th one - the one that had been backing up.

The water level, in this 4th drain, stayed more or less constant, about 4 inches below floor level, regardless of how much water I ran down the sink, or sprayed into the pipe with the hose and bladder (the Drain King bladder).

I was surprised I could not see the water 'flowing' through that 4th floor drain! It appeared very still!

The only time I even saw the water in the floor drain move was was when I released an entire sink full of water, all at once, down the drain - and then I saw the water level come up about 1 inch, for about 1second, and then go down again. It seems to be acting like a trap, even though I am pretty sure it is not - so, I guess I am thinking that if the 4th floor drain is not a trap, then maybe the downstream pipe is slightly blocked?

Would you share what you think, based on what I described.?
 
  #34  
Old 11-30-18, 12:09 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
some pictures from yesterday

First picture shows the kitchen drain line, and the other two holes, the middle of which was plugged a long time ago, but recently broke off, leaving the open hole (I think this was a 2nd kitchen line?). The other floor drain, to the right, showing the drain the water is backing out of.

Second picture shows kitchen drain and PVC clean out, and the cast iron clean out at the floor, which seems frozen).

Third picture is one of the 3 'dry' floor drains. It has the 'neck' broken out of it as you can see, but that allowed me a better picture of the drain. It looks like just a regular 90 degree elbow at the bottom. No trap!

Fourth picture was the piece that was cemented shut, and later rust and broke off the middle hole in the first picture.
 
Attached Images     
  #35  
Old 11-30-18, 12:13 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
oh, and here is the floor drain that is backing up. It does not have the 'neck' rusted out yet.

Now one of the rental guys is saying i should not put a snake down that floor drain?! Do you agree?
 
Attached Images  
  #36  
Old 11-30-18, 01:04 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,770
I wonder if some of those floor drains are for storm water and are not tied into the sewer system. I have a floor drain in each corner (4) of my basement and they are tied into the underground storm water system around my house. It all comes together (downspouts and floor drains) and flows out of a big pipe on the side of a hill. Those 4 floor drains donít have a trap. I donít think any kind of a trap is used if the drain is for storm water and is not tied to the sewer system.

Just mentioning that because you say several of your floor drains donít appear to have traps. But my house was built in 1967; I know yours is much older.
 
  #37  
Old 11-30-18, 01:09 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
Two more picture of one of the 3 dry floor drains. There is no clean out plug in these floor drains. Maybe because house was built around 1928? I guess that explains why the drain just has 90 elbow at the bottom?
 
Attached Images   
  #38  
Old 11-30-18, 01:31 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,770
Well just remembered what Pilot Dane said about houses that old having a main house trap. I guess that would explain it also and might be more likely that storm sewer drains (which I just found out recently are called "soakaway" drains).
 
  #39  
Old 11-30-18, 02:26 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI
Posts: 124
I Don't know if those floor drains are tied into any storm water runoff, or not. But I wonder if this provides a clue - I vacuumed the water our of the floor drain, and the other hole. SO it was almost empty. I then put the hose/bladder down the pvc pipe from the kitchen (I put it into the Wye). The floor drain filled with water, to about 4" below the floor surface, and then the other hole did too. So that floor drain is connected to the kitchen drain piping. Interestingly I let the water run for over 5 minutes, and the drain did not overflow. I also filled the kitchen sink, let the water out, and the water level rose about 1", for about 1 second. Would a storm drain be connected to kitchen drain like that?

I was all set to rent a snake, but they have only 1 tip, a U shaped tip that is 1.5" wide, and I know the opening in that floor drain is only 1.25". Then the rental guy said, don't use a snake on a floor drain! Now I'm contemplating the wisdom of what he said. I should have pressed on as to why, but did not.

So, I was thinking to try and use a toilet auger, or a stiff rod bent on on end, in that drain, just to see if maybe only the outlet out of the drain is plugged.

I did try to open up that 6.5 drain cover, which may be a whole house trap, but ran out of energy last night after trying to chisel all around it, and spraying it with PB Blaster, and trying to get it to move. I suppose I should try to get the cleanout cap off the bottom of the drain piping, if I should not put snake down the drain, but I want to determine of that is good advice, or not, before I attack the cast iron cleanout cap. What do you think?

The pic of the 6.5" floor drain (which might be a main house trap) is immediately below, and the cast iron cleanout by the kitchen drain line is below that. (It looks like someone wreneched on it before because the square head is pretty well rounded out:
 
Attached Images   
  #40  
Old 11-30-18, 04:40 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,770
Would a storm drain be connected to kitchen drain like that?
No the storm sewer would be separate from the sanitary sewer.

Iím sure no expert but what I imagine your situation to be, is exactly like in this picture Ė except you donít have the laundry tub and there are more floor drains. But it seems to me where the clog is shown in the picture is where yours would be. Stuff from the kitchen sink would back up in the floor drain given where the clog is, but other fixtures in the house would be OK, as yours are.

But I could be all wrong.
 
Attached Images  
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes