I looked at a bathroom remodel in process today. I thought I was seeing things...water pipes run on an outside wall. When I asked the guy in charge about it he said yeah "we're going to put foam board back there."
Am I missing something? I've seen copper pipes freeze this way. Is pex that much more impervious?
If it means anything, there's vinyl siding on the outside of the cinder block. Also the location is SE Michigan.
As Marq indicated, is that a basement wall? And if below grade then pipe on outside wall is OK.
I know a guy who lives in a townhouse. Bathroom piping is on an outside wall. He left for a vacation and came back to a flooded house. He must now shut off water supply every time he leaves the house.
Or insist that they notch the studs to put the pex as close to the drywall as possible, then cover them with no nail plates. And still use foam behind them. As much foam as possible... air seal the edges of each layer of foam.
Pex is easy and flexible. Should be no problem with rerouting. I'm not keen on the notching suggestion. Would that even be to code? Seems like as much work if not more. Then you have "non-standard" wall. I've seen a re-piped house (actually my daughter's former house) that used a multivalve manifold coming off the main as it entered the house. Al the pex lines were branched off of that. They were then able to bring the pex piping to inside walls with either another manifold or valve to "zone" each area. The only piping that were on an outside wall was the kitchen sink. But they were inside the dwelling and not inside the wall.
OK....I've decided I'm going to tactfully try to put another stronger bug in the contractor's ear about this being a problem...even though we don't know each other. That is all I can do. We'll see how he responds.
You can notch 25% in a load bearing wall. The notch would be roughly 3/4 deep which is 20%. And this is likely not a load bearing wall. Non load bearing walls can be notched 40%.
During a bathroom reno years ago I put PEX shower supply pipes in an outside wall. The wife wanted a glass shower and only outside walls were available for plumbing. I doubled the wall where the vertical pipes were run and I used 4" of foam board (R-20?) in the empty outside stud cavity plus I tucked unfaced batt around the pex pipes in the inner wall cavity.
The pipes froze - twice. Granted, both times it was below zero outside. Fortunately the pipes didn't burst. I'm glad I used PEX because copper would probably have failed. After that we were sure to drip the shower on very cold nights.
That shower has since been rebuilt with the plumbing on an inside wall.
OK....I've decided I'm going to tactfully try to put another stronger bug in the contractor's ear
Who's paying for this? If it's you then you demand he do it correctly. Check with your local codes and insurance company. I'm betting they will not approve of water pipes on outside walls.
Look at what CW's experience was and how much insulation he took to it. And still had problems. This is a clear case of learning from someone else's experience.
Show these post to the contractor, maybe that will make him think.
Did you say in an outside wall or on (the outside of) an outside wall?
For pipes in an outside wall I suggest no insulation between the pipe and the inside wall surface. Do not use pour in insulation. For batts, run them behind the pipe or slice out a V shaped notch following the route of the pipe as wide at the wall surface as it is deep.
A pipe must never be run on the outside wall surface in a cold climate without heating tape wrapped around it. Even so it will be a constant worry in case of power failure.
I was thinking I was pretty clear about the post details with the picture included, and my subsequent info, but perhaps not, with seeing some of the responses.
As I have stated, I am an outside observer (It is not my house.) that has raised an eyebrow to a dicey situation. I have expressed my concerns to the contractor clearly. It is not up to me to insist anyone do anything.
PLUS, I think, most of us assume right off the bat that when someone asks a question and posts pictures from inside someone's home, that he IS the homeowner, otherwise he wouldn't be taking those pictures, posting them, and asking questions.
I know your post didn't read that way, but the forum is largely for answering diy questions that homeowners have. That is typically the mind set with which anyone who is quickly skimming the forums would have, which is likely why the answers reflect that.
Also, people (men especially i think) are wired to see the problem and offer a solution before they have heard everything. That's the way we think. So I know I have often been guilty of not reading everything and just chiming in with a solution. Just as I have likely cut my wife off in mid-sentence many times with an answer before I have even heard the entire question.
Oops! I was looking at the picture and "did not see the pipes there yet" I thinks to meself, are the pipes out of sight behind the wall in the outside world? I have seen pipes attached to the surface of the outside wall in warmer climates. Today I look again and what I thought were red and blue electrical cables were the pipes! Duh!
This trap gets clogged very easily when using the Garbage Disposal. I have used GDs for over 40 years in previous homes and never had problems like with this one in this house. I ran an experiment where in I created a lot of potato skins. I turned on the water to the full setting and slowly fed in the skins just a little at a time and watched it empty before putting in the next batch. The water started to back up into the other bowel. I stopped it and opened up the pipes. The trap was stuffed tight. The section from the trap to the down piece was empty and clear. I don't know why it clogged.
I am considering that the flow is too slow. Federal requirements limit the flow to 2.2 GPM. I tested mine and it was 1.2 GPM. I took out the flow control and measured 1.6 GPM. I have not had a chance to test it at this faster rate but I sense flow rate is not the problem. What else could it be?
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My vent and washer drain trap tie into the main soil stack in the basement. The fit up was done poorly in my opinion and could be tucked tighter to the wall, which would allow me to move my washer/dryer closer to the wall and away from basement daylight entrance. It is all PVC so I need to cut and splice.
I am going to build the assembly first and then cut and splice last. I think there is enough play in the horizontal run to the stack that I can hard pipe everything, but if not, is it legal to use a fernco fitting?
Second question, is there anything i can/should do to keep escaping septic gasses from filling the basement while I am making my connection? Or just try to work quickly?
01-20-21, 07:49 PM
