Help Finding Cause of Small Leak
#1
05-17-22, 11:33 AM
Help Finding Cause of Small Leak
So I found a small spot where water is coming through my ceiling. Its slow but apparently has been there for some time. It's not consistent. The spot is directly below our master bath, near the toilet, shower and sink. I had assumed there was water leaking when someone showered or flushed the toilet. But seems to be random. So then I'm thinking a leaking pipe....
House is 20 years old. I've never re-caulked the shower, but I've replaced the toilet once and have installed new sink fixtures. Is it possible there's a pipe hidden in between the floors that leaking?
I'm going to cut out the damaged area in the ceiling today and look for evidence. What else should I be doing here, short of hiring a plumber which I'd like to not do?
thanks!
House is 20 years old. I've never re-caulked the shower, but I've replaced the toilet once and have installed new sink fixtures. Is it possible there's a pipe hidden in between the floors that leaking?
I'm going to cut out the damaged area in the ceiling today and look for evidence. What else should I be doing here, short of hiring a plumber which I'd like to not do?
thanks!
#2
05-17-22, 01:24 PM
UPDATE: well I cut out the small patch of drywall at the wet spot and luckily the leak was right there. Its a tiny, pinhole size hole in the copper pipe. While I'm glad its so accessible and will be able to fix it, I'm a little concerned as to why something like that would happen. And where else might this happen in a place thats not as easily as accessible?
#3
05-17-22, 02:09 PM
Group Moderator
I've seen two causes of "random" leaks in copper piping but know of three causes. All three of these cause leaks right through the side of the pipe and not a leaking joint.
One is where the water chemistry slowly dissolves the pipe from the inside out. The walls of all the piping gradually thins over time. First a pinhole leak develops... and then another... and becomes more frequent over time. I have only seen this happen on well water and you probably would have green staining in your toilets and around faucet mouths. This is the most serious as it can mean the whole house will need the copper piping replaced.
The second is caused by flux applied when the plumbers originally soldered the pipes. Some flux apparently can eat the pipe slowly from the inside. It is much more hit and miss and random in nature. The good news is it generally doesn't mean the whole house needs to be replumbed.
The last cause is from cavitation. If the plumber didn't remove the burr after cutting the pipe it can cause cavitation downstream from the burr which slowly erodes the pipe over time. This requires specific circumstances so occurs rarely.
One is where the water chemistry slowly dissolves the pipe from the inside out. The walls of all the piping gradually thins over time. First a pinhole leak develops... and then another... and becomes more frequent over time. I have only seen this happen on well water and you probably would have green staining in your toilets and around faucet mouths. This is the most serious as it can mean the whole house will need the copper piping replaced.
The second is caused by flux applied when the plumbers originally soldered the pipes. Some flux apparently can eat the pipe slowly from the inside. It is much more hit and miss and random in nature. The good news is it generally doesn't mean the whole house needs to be replumbed.
The last cause is from cavitation. If the plumber didn't remove the burr after cutting the pipe it can cause cavitation downstream from the burr which slowly erodes the pipe over time. This requires specific circumstances so occurs rarely.
Norm201
voted this post useful.
#4
05-17-22, 03:10 PM
Thanks for that great feedback Pilot Dane. We dont have well water, but municipal thats tested and never had any issues. And I didnt call out but you alluded to it - the leak as through the side of the pipe and not a joint. And we have a home that was mass produced by a developer known for cutting major corners. Not sure if #2 above - the flux, affects the middle run of the pipe versus the joints. But I can see #3 burrs being a result of shotty work.
With that said, of the shotty work I've encountered none of it has been plumbing thus far.
With that said, of the shotty work I've encountered none of it has been plumbing thus far.
#5
05-18-22, 09:57 AM
Hopefully that's the only pinhole leak you find. I had a house that had a couple pinhole leaks despite being well built and on city water. I hadn't heard of the burr/cavitation theory, so I can't weigh in on that.
But the main thing is you found it easily and it should be an easy fix!
But the main thing is you found it easily and it should be an easy fix!
#6
05-18-22, 12:00 PM
Group Moderator
#7
05-19-22, 05:24 PM
Thanks. And Pilot Dane cool video. Im amazed at how sensitive something like copper pipe can be from corrosion inside. Wow. Oh and watched the video until the end and now I know what a hot water heater anode rod does! Im curious - if the inside of your water heater looks l like the corroded one in that video, does that mean you're bathing, cleaning, and potentially drinking that gunk?
#9
05-20-22, 04:51 AM
Group Moderator
"...if the inside of your water heater looks l like the corroded one in that video, does that mean you're bathing, cleaning, and potentially drinking that gunk?"
No, actually the water heater acts a bit like a filter. It traps sediment and the heating causes some minerals to precipitate out and settle to the bottom of the tank. So, as far as minerals go the water coming out of the heater is a bit cleaner than what went in.
If you have city water that's pretty much the end of it. If you are on a well there is almost always some level of bacteria in the water. This can take up residence in the water heater. It's not harmful but some types eat the anode and produce hydrogen sulfide gas which can give your hot water a rotten egg smell. Changing to a different type of anode (aluminum?) can prevent the smell.
No, actually the water heater acts a bit like a filter. It traps sediment and the heating causes some minerals to precipitate out and settle to the bottom of the tank. So, as far as minerals go the water coming out of the heater is a bit cleaner than what went in.
If you have city water that's pretty much the end of it. If you are on a well there is almost always some level of bacteria in the water. This can take up residence in the water heater. It's not harmful but some types eat the anode and produce hydrogen sulfide gas which can give your hot water a rotten egg smell. Changing to a different type of anode (aluminum?) can prevent the smell.
#10
05-20-22, 05:32 AM
Very cool, informative and good news :-) Was telling the wife about this last night and will be happy to tell her that most likely our older water heater wasnt letting us bathe in rust. Amd now going to watch a video on changing out the anode rod. .
