Should I get standard or full port ball valve?


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Old 08-22-22, 12:23 AM
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Should I get standard or full port ball valve?

I am going to replace the water shut-off valve to my house. I already ordered a ball valve with 1 inch inner diameter inlet and outlet with compression fittings. After I ordered it, I noticed it was standard port. Should I have ordered a full port ball valve? If so, I can easily return or exchange it.

Also, I attached a photo of the city meter main shut-off valve. Those two large nuts are for valves I believe. Which one is for shutting off the water and which way do I turn the nut to shut-off the water?

The city has a free turn off the valve/turn on the valve service. But it would be nice for me to know how to turn it off if there was ever a water leak emergency. This is not urgent. I plan doing this in month or so.





 
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Old 08-22-22, 06:47 AM
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The two large nuts are where the meter connects to the water line. The shutoff valve is on the top, right hand side and has an arrow on it. Right now it is in the open/on position. If you rotate it so the two locking rings align the water will be turned off.
 
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Old 08-22-22, 08:41 AM
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Ahh.......ok. So if I am understanding correctly, the valve would be shut-off if the locking ring holes are aligned with the inlet pipe? And so the arrow would be vertical and pointing upward? What tool would I use to shut it off................just a wrench on that arrow tab?

Or is there a special tool for the locking ring holes?

Any thoughts on whether I should use a standard or full port ball valve for the house shut-off valve?
 
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Old 08-22-22, 09:53 AM
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The shutoff on the meter is the valve in the top right. When rotated so the rings align the water is off and the city can install a lock to prevent stealing water.

The rotation axis for the valve is vertical so the arrow never points up or down. It points in the direction of flow.

You can use whatever wrenches fit. There is a special water meter wrench that is handy when they are buried 3 feet underground. Since yours is at the surface a Crescent wrench on the flats of the valve then another wrench to turn it is all you need.

A full port ball valve is preferred.
 
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Old 08-22-22, 09:57 AM
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When the two holes align, it allows the water company to add a padlock to keep the water shut off if you don't pay your bill. So aligning the two holes is OFF for that valve.

There are special Water Shutoff Keys to turn that off if it's a few feet underground. But in your case, a crescent wrench would work just fine.

I wouldn't worry about whether you use a full port ball valve or not. All ball valves have better flow than a gate or globe valves. I would suggest your valve have a drain plug on it though to help draining the system if needed, unless there's some other way to easily drain from the lowest point in the piping.
 
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Old 08-22-22, 01:41 PM
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Ok. Let's see if I understand. So you move the locking hole tabs in the same way as the hands of a clock till the holes align?
 
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Old 08-22-22, 02:33 PM
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In many meters you can rotate the valve in either direction.
 
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Old 08-22-22, 03:15 PM
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Ok. Very good. Thanks guys.
I'm going to return the standard port valve for a full port ball valve.
 
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Old 09-23-22, 11:24 PM
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When I replace this ball valve, I am going to take the opportunity to replace some other valves in the house. For example, I should replace the clothes washing machine gate valves also. These are very old.
 
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Old 09-24-22, 04:20 AM
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You can replace any of them you want but if not leaking then it's just preventative maintenance!
 
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Old 09-24-22, 06:17 AM
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You should have a main shutoff valve when the pipe enters the house. There should be little or no need to shut off at the meter itself. (OK, I noticed you're in Arizona, so the need inside the house is not important.) Adding isolation valves to various locations will allow water service to house in different areas when need to work on or replace a valve. For instance, isolate the bathroom from the kitchen or the washing machine. The difference from standard port to full will be neglectable. I doubt you'll see a difference.
 
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Old 09-26-22, 03:28 PM
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Ahh.....I almost missed your posts Norm and Marq. Thanks.

I figured on replacing the clothes washer hot and cold gate valves because those are 26 years old and I doubt those would fully close now. Those look like simple screw on type.

Somebody said they doubted the ball valve with compression fittings would work for the water shut-off location because of the inline configuration of the pipe. Something about having to pull the pipe ends away to insert the ball valve inline. Is that true?
 
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Old 09-26-22, 03:46 PM
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Something about having to pull the pipe ends away to insert the ball valve inline. Is that true?
Well, yes. The ends of the pipe must be long or short enough to properly engage the valve fitting be it compression or Sharkbite, or threaded.

 
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Old 10-06-22, 08:14 PM
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It looks like soldering in the shut off valve with two non-recessed couplings makes the most sense for
my lack of experience. This means I will need to learn and practice sweating pipes.
 
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Old 10-07-22, 04:36 AM
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Not hard. take a couple of scrap pieces of copper pipe and fittings. Don't worry about being neat. A few drips of solder will not be a problem.
Using fine sandpaper or a battery brush clean both the male and female ends of the pipe and fittings. Smear some flux on both ends. Fit pieces together. Heat the fitting to an almost cheery red (too hot is not good). Take the end of the solder and just touch the seam where the two pieces meet. It flows into the connection. And you're done. DO NOT try to cool it with water or a rag. Let it cool naturally.
When you go to actually solder the real thing and you have other fitting within very close proximity, you can wrap a wet rag around those fitting to prevent them from getting loose from the heat.
 
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Old 11-12-22, 08:59 AM
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Thanks Norm and friends!

I just now saw Norm's response. I still have not done this yet because I want to complete it with a couple other repairs later this month, and get it all done while on vacation from work.

By the way, will the city water department know when I turn off the city shut-off valve to do my plumbing repairs? And could I get in trouble?
 

Last edited by bluesbreaker; 11-12-22 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 11-12-22, 01:02 PM
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If at you meter, no it should not matter.
If, however, you were to shutoff the valve from the street using a special key, that is in most cases illegal.
Those special keys are available, and my son-in-law did in fact purchase one and shut off the water at street (front lawn level) and got away with it.
I'd like to do it also but I'm on a corner and town trucks typically pass by my house several times a week. My luck, I'd get caught.
 
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Old 11-12-22, 06:17 PM
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The city doesn't do this service on the weekend unless you want to pay an exorbitant fee. Their schedule for doing this service is very inconvenient and really, unacceptable if you ask me.

Plumbers around here turn the city shut-off valves on and off all the time when doing residential repairs.
 
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Old 02-06-23, 07:17 AM
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I am going to do this later this month. I broke my finger in December and want to make sure it's fully healed.
 
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Old 08-06-23, 09:04 PM
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I still have not replaced the main shut-off valve outside the house. Several months ago, I was on the phone with a city employee trying to schedule the free water shut-off so I could do this task. It was so incredibly inconvenient.
They can't work with your schedule. Whenever I would try to select a time, the guy would say "That time is already taken." I finally got disgusted and said don't worry about it and hung up. So I postponed the valve replacement.

And then the guy ended up sending me a letter threatening to shut off water service if I did not have my deceased father's name taken off the water and sewer bill.

When the temperature comes down some, I'll do what needs to be done without help from water and sewer department and get this valve replacement done.
 
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Old 08-07-23, 10:44 AM
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You're not alone with your frustration with water departments. Most are quasi public/private organizations which don't report to the state utilities commission and only barely report to the city. So it's typical that they are poorly run and often in not a great financial situation.

But good luck scheduling shutoff time with them - or biting the bullet and getting a plumber to shut it off for you or doing it yourself.
 
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Old 09-14-23, 09:27 PM
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I'll have to do it myself when the time comes
 
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Old 09-16-23, 09:17 PM
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Most water co. will not mind you turn off water service to your home from the street. Plumbers do it all the time.
However, if you break it for any reason, you will be responsible for the damage.
Since yours is in plain sight, there is very little chance of you breaking it. Just don't force it too hard. It will be tight to turn since it hasn't moved in a long time, but shouldn't be tight enough to move pipe. If it does, stop and call the water co.

In my area, for some unknown reason, street shutoff (curb stop) is underground inside curb stop box instead of water meter box just 6" in front. Curb stop under ground is common in houses with water meter inside home, but not so common when water meter is also at the curb. So, I have to use curb stop key. Not so easy to find valve buried in 3" tube filled with mud. You cannot see the valve and you have to feel around. If the key was attached to the wrong part and forced, it can break the valve.

Since main shutoff will be the first valve before any valves you can drain, you will need to blow and suction water out of the pipe before you can sweat new valve in. You can also remove water meter to allow water in the pipe to drain, but if the seals are old, it may not seal properly once water meter is removed. Technically, you are supposed to replace the seals every time the water meter is disconnected, and hardware stores won't carry the seal.
 
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Old 11-29-23, 09:35 AM
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I wanted to get this done this week. But my truck is in the transmission shop. So I don't have transportation to the hardware store. I dug up the path of the water line underground, and maybe.......the pipe can be flexed to insert a compression fitting ball valve.
 

Last edited by bluesbreaker; 11-29-23 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 05-09-24, 11:26 AM
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Hello friends,

I finally replaced the main house water shut-off valve yesterday. Photo is attached. I incorporated soldering with the compression fitting shut-off valve. This is the first time I used soldering for a plumbing repair. I did practice soldering on and off for 2 weeks.

One thing concerns me. Notice that horizontal section of pipe trailing from the hose bib through the wall of the house is flexed slightly upward. I wonder if that causes stress on the pipe. I'm not necessarily satisfied with my work. The end result is that this contraption does work and it doesn't leak at this time. Would it pass inspection code? I don't know. This was my first time. I did this all myself.

Let me know what you think. I don't want anyone to think I didn't appreciate their help because I waited so long.
But I saved this discussion and any other related ones to help with this repair







 
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Old 05-09-24, 12:10 PM
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I'd say you good!
 
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Old 05-10-24, 01:20 AM
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That upper most joint close to the compression nut has 27 year old solder. You can see where I sanded it down
I tried to desolder and remove that coupling. But I gave up on it. I'm surprised it is not leaking from me melting the old solder. I thought about soldering over it. Should I just leave it then?

If I ever have to be replace this, I'll build the entire 'L-Shaped' assembly as a one piece fit like someone on this website suggested.
 
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Old 05-10-24, 03:58 AM
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Leave well enough alone. You should not have tried to remove the old solder without actually doing it. But again, if it's not leaking let it go. And as you say if and when it gives you trouble then redo the whole thing.
 
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Old 05-10-24, 03:02 PM
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Yeah, There were a couple flaws in my method here. I don't like that top horizontal pipe bent slightly upwards.
I guess this first one is a learning experience.

That lower horizontal pipe is for the inoperative irrigation system which I will never repair.
I'm going to solder a cap on that later.
 
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Old 05-12-24, 10:48 AM
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When I solder the cap onto the lower horizontal pipe (for inoperative irrigation system) I need to protect the next closest sweated copper fittings from melting. Should I put a damp cloth in the freezer just short of freezing it, before I wrap it around the other completed soldered fittings? Or is that too much?
 
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Old 05-12-24, 12:22 PM
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I just use a wet cloth wrapped around the fitting you do not want to de-solder.
 
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Old 05-12-24, 08:07 PM
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Ok. Thanks Norm.
 
 

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