Do you need two pumps if you use skimmer?

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  #1  
Old 08-12-05, 05:16 AM
emeryk
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Do you need two pumps if you use skimmer?

We have a brand new 1200 gallon pond with a skimmer. We have a waterfall pump to put into the skimmer which we were planning to pump water to a pressurized filter with UV, then on to the waterfall. This was the set up reccommended by one pond supply shop. However at another pond supply shop we were told we need two pumps. One pump should be at the bottom of the pond and go to the filter and the other stays in the skimmer and goes on to the waterfall. The reason given was that it is the water at the bottom of the pond that really needs to be filtered. Anyone know if two pumps are required for this set up?
 
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Old 08-14-05, 04:05 PM
fewalt's Avatar
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One pump is fine if it has enough output. My Pondmaster 3600 is in my skimmer and pumps most water to wf and the balance to a filter box.

With good circulation, the water, including temperature, is made just about equal throughout the pond. (Bottom pumps are a pain in the derrier to pull out and clean) - they clog constantly.

fred
 
  #3  
Old 02-05-06, 11:12 PM
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Location: Peterborough, Canada
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Actually I must strongly disagree. YES you definitly need to turn over the water from the bottom of the pond so that all the water in the pond is constantly moving down. Especially in a pond your size. You would be very surprised with the amount of gunk and gasses that build up at the bottom of a pond and short of spending hours a day scooping it out a pump is the only other choice. I also disagree with the constantly clogging. that will only happen if your pump is not big enough which is a source for a lot of my business, sometimes i just clean the bottome and put a new pump in and thats it. Also you can have great circulation in a pond and still have the water stratify with a layer of colder hevier water staying at the bottom, unless the circulation is starting at the bottom. Ok so still dont want to put a pump in the bottom well thats ok there is an altternative. I dont suppose you put in a bottom drain? if you did your rocking. If not all is not lost. What you need is a vacuum bottom drain, I will leave a few links to explanatory sites here.
http://harperspond.tripod.com/genera....album?i=0&s=1
http://www.tnwaterworks.com/product681.html
http://www.shooterdog.com/biofiltr.htm
http://www.concentric.net/~rsmack/pond/filter/
http://www.mikebentley.com/ponds/homemadefilters.htm




 
  #4  
Old 02-07-06, 04:00 AM
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Actually, It is I who must strongly disagrees.

1) a pump in bottom of pond: it will clog and need to be pulled quite often- leaves, twig, dead frog, gravel, etc, etc. (even 3600 gal pumps can clog, break impeller fins)

2) Bottom debre: can be removed by other means - siphon, shop vac, temporary pump, net.

3) If a wf is present, water will not stratify!! Any adequate amount of circulation will eliminate stratification. Top to bottom temps will NOT vary more than .5 degrees. (tested by electronic temp sensors and verified by many).

fred
 
  #5  
Old 02-10-06, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by fewalt
Actually, It is I who must strongly disagrees.

1) a pump in bottom of pond: it will clog and need to be pulled quite often- leaves, twig, dead frog, gravel, etc, etc. (even 3600 gal pumps can clog, break impeller fins)

2) Bottom debre: can be removed by other means - siphon, shop vac, temporary pump, net.

3) If a wf is present, water will not stratify!! Any adequate amount of circulation will eliminate stratification. Top to bottom temps will NOT vary more than .5 degrees. (tested by electronic temp sensors and verified by many).

fred

For one I did'nt really notice how old this thread was. Second I am not attacking you personaly I just dont want to see someone make a mistake with there pond on bad advice. Third I have been working on and building ponds since I was 12 years old with my Dad out west in BC. I am now in my fourth year of owning my own pond company in Ontario. That being said as a rule I try to avoid arguing with someone on the internet its like mud wresling with a pig. In the end you just get dirty, and the pig likes it. So I will try to counterpoint the tree items above and I will just urge Emeryk to get more opinions before he decides.

Item 1. Clogging pumps. I could clogg a jet engine in a pond if the conditions are right. Just make sure the Pump is strong enough to chew through the few things that fall in a pond. If you put plants in a pond then house the pump inside a straining basket or outside of the pond on the otherside of a gravity fed filter system that has a settling chamber. Use a bottom drain either pre installed or a vaccuum style. Either way you do need to cycle water from the bottom out. This set up when using a proper size pump virtualy eliminates the need to remove debris manualy(I've scooped my new one once in 4 years).


Item 2. Debris: Well other then using a net all of the methods you mentioned are what happens with a bottom drain and a pump housed out side of the pond with at least a settling chamber, best a bio filter too. actually its also what I recomended in the first place.

Item 3. Waterfalls: Well this isnt black and white and I would never give that advice. What if they go and build a 3 tier wf system with a 3' drop at the last one. Ponds are fluid (no pun intended) and can be built any shape size depth width etc etc. and of course any adequate amount of circulation will stop stratisfying. But thats like saying an adequate size motor will tow your boat when the person asks what size. kind of general. I will just state that stratisfying happens more then we know. in fact I found a 6 degree diferance in a pond that was 32" deep and about 600 gallons. it was enough to keep the colder hevier water at the bottom and hid a lot of gasses from decaying plants. (not the only reason the gasses were stuck down there) still the water at the bottom was circulating maybe once every hundred times that the surface water was.( thats actually pretty fast for stratisfied bottom water.) As for the .5 dif. Well Ive never seen that, I really dont consider water actually stratisfied till after a couple of degrees which is a range that changing sun and wind exposer is likely to affect enough to counter night time stratisying in the summer.( depends on lots of variables such as depth, shade, well lots and lots lol.) Varified by many? I would gladly appreciate a link to the source of this as I need to keep up with new trends and techniques for the business. electronc temp sensors? arent they all electronic now? Yes I prefer Digital Portable fishfinders like Min Kota or Lawrance ( the GPS models are more acurate for temp). For small ponds under 40" deep) I settle for a Digital wand from Canadian Tire.


Well that is the last Im saying on this subject unless Emeryk needs further advice. I hope this helps.

 
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