new pool owner with ripped pool

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  #1  
Old 09-30-02, 07:55 AM
corinth134
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Unhappy new pool owner with ripped pool

We recently purchased our first home. It was a repo with a lot of work to be done. It has a 20 x 40 kidney shaped in-ground outdoor pool. It is a fiberglass tub set in concrete. The water was very dark green and there appeared to be no structural problems to my untrained engineer-eye. Not one local pool company would even come out to look at the pool. They all montra'd "we didn't install it..."

It was in need of a lot of care. The cover had holes in it, all the lines were clogged, ivy had grown over about 6 feet of the pool cover. Once I cut back the ivy and got the cover off, I found several cracks in the fiberglass liner. One of the cracks was "severe." It was about 4 feet long running vertically from the top toward the bottom on the side where the ivy had overgrown the cover. I also found a mysterious looking hole with a pump in the bottom of it near the pool.

I felt like I had to "smooze" my way into the pool community at the local pool stores. I finally got one of them to admit that they had installed the pool many years ago. I called for service and their guy came out, fixed a valve, loaned me a pump to pump out the "water." Weeks later I got a bill for $150. At least he answered all my questions. He had actually been here about 10 years ago and remembered the place. He said the mysterious hole with pump was probably because of a groundwater drainage problem.

I repaired all of the cracks using fiberglass cloth and resin that I bought from a local homestore. It was messy and cured to a gross snot looking color but it worked.

Recently, we had a hard rain that lasted about a day and a half. I found that there was indeed a groundwater drainage problem! The pool had torn open another sever rip about 4 inches from where I repaired that last one. I found that water was pouring into the pool through this crack. Even two to four hours after the rain had stopped, there was still water trickeling into the pool through this crack. Now I'm working devising a better groundwater drainage system before I attempt to repair this rip!

I suspect that somehow, instead of water going around the concrete, it is somehow getting between the fiberglass liner and the concrete. It's amazing how much pressure must have built up to rip that kind of damage through the liner. That liner looks about 1/4 inch thick!

Since I've been stumbling my way through this pool nightmare, I'm hoping somebody out there may have some good ideas for me before I start digging up the yard, tearing up concrete, or filling in the pool with dirt!

Sorry this is so long, but maybe some of this information may help others in similar situations.
 
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  #2  
Old 09-30-02, 04:25 PM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
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Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 18,389
Re: new pool owner with ripped pool

Originally posted by corinth134
We recently purchased our first home. It was a repo with a lot of work to be done. It has a 20 x 40 kidney shaped in-ground outdoor pool. It is a fiberglass tub set in concrete. The water was very dark green and there appeared to be no structural problems to my untrained engineer-eye. Not one local pool company would even come out to look at the pool. They all montra'd "we didn't install it..."

It was in need of a lot of care. The cover had holes in it, all the lines were clogged, ivy had grown over about 6 feet of the pool cover. Once I cut back the ivy and got the cover off, I found several cracks in the fiberglass liner. One of the cracks was "severe." It was about 4 feet long running vertically from the top toward the bottom on the side where the ivy had overgrown the cover. I also found a mysterious looking hole with a pump in the bottom of it near the pool.

I felt like I had to "smooze" my way into the pool community at the local pool stores. I finally got one of them to admit that they had installed the pool many years ago. I called for service and their guy came out, fixed a valve, loaned me a pump to pump out the "water." Weeks later I got a bill for $150. At least he answered all my questions. He had actually been here about 10 years ago and remembered the place. He said the mysterious hole with pump was probably because of a groundwater drainage problem.

I repaired all of the cracks using fiberglass cloth and resin that I bought from a local homestore. It was messy and cured to a gross snot looking color but it worked.

Recently, we had a hard rain that lasted about a day and a half. I found that there was indeed a groundwater drainage problem! The pool had torn open another sever rip about 4 inches from where I repaired that last one. I found that water was pouring into the pool through this crack. Even two to four hours after the rain had stopped, there was still water trickeling into the pool through this crack. Now I'm working devising a better groundwater drainage system before I attempt to repair this rip!

I suspect that somehow, instead of water going around the concrete, it is somehow getting between the fiberglass liner and the concrete. It's amazing how much pressure must have built up to rip that kind of damage through the liner. That liner looks about 1/4 inch thick!

Since I've been stumbling my way through this pool nightmare, I'm hoping somebody out there may have some good ideas for me before I start digging up the yard, tearing up concrete, or filling in the pool with dirt!

Sorry this is so long, but maybe some of this information may help others in similar situations.
Dont know if i can but will try had pools for about 15 years now. Im LOST, is this a glass pool or just a liner??The pump in the hole is this the pool pump and where is the filter? do you have a under ground pipe to pump out with ,under the pool so you can drain the pool and it
dont pop out of the ground? Was the pool full when the new repair riped?Im down in Fl. here we have to keep a pump running on that line under the pool all the time we work on a pool.You have to fill the pool before you turn off that pump.Do you have a walk way around the pool? where does this water you talk about come from? ED
 
  #3  
Old 09-30-02, 06:54 PM
corinth134
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Post Re: Re: new pool owner with ripped pool

Originally posted by Ed Imeduc
Dont know if i can but will try had pools for about 15 years now. Im LOST, is this a glass pool or just a liner??The pump in the hole is this the pool pump and where is the filter? do you have a under ground pipe to pump out with ,under the pool so you can drain the pool and it don't pop out of the ground? Was the pool full when the new repair riped?Im down in Fl. here we have to keep a pump running on that line under the pool all the time we work on a pool.You have to fill the pool before you turn off that pump.Do you have a walk way around the pool? where does this water you talk about come from? ED
Ed, Thanks for your post! I really don't know if this is considered a liner or not now that you bring it up. I thought since the surface that faces the water is fiberglass, that is the liner. Concrete is behind the liner. The pump in the hole is a Zoeller pump and apparently is used to pump excess groundwater. There is an above-ground Haward S200 sand filter and superpump. The pump does run but I could not get it to suck any water out. Half of the tiles had dropped into the pool and I couldn't get them out without scuba (and the water was almost black anyway). So my first task was to empty the pool, clean it, fix the cracks, then fill it with water. I was looking for a way to fill the pool without paying the city my arm and leg for a huge water bill when the storm hit. Could this rip be hydro-static pressure? There is a concrete walkway all the way around the pool. I have no idea where this water is coming from. The line that you are referring to under the pool... is that the one connected to the drain? Or is that a different line? There is a valve next to the drain. When I finally got all the water out and the black ooz from the drain and return lines, I pulled up on that valve and some water came in. It was not clear so I thought this was ground water from under the pool. Is this rip a symptom of the pool-popping out of the ground since the pool had no water in it? If I fix the rip, then fill the pool, should I just forget about that water I saw coming through the rip? Since the second rip, I thought I should resolve the water problem before I fix it again...
 
  #4  
Old 10-10-02, 07:37 AM
corinth134
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UPdate: When I took the Zoeller pump to repair the float switch, they said it has a short and was unsafe to use. I got a new 1/3 hp Rigid brand pump with a lifetime warranty for about $150. When installing the new pump, I noticed that the rotten electrical supply wires were not in conduit and only in about 8 inches of earth. This is now new outdoor wiring with pvc conduit buried in 18" earth, with a GFCI receptacle and outdoor receptacle cover. The gutters are now plumbed to the pump pit. All this has led to a lot of digging and runs to my local home improvement store, but the last rain yielded no more water coming in through the rip in the pool. Now, I'm in the process of using the pump to pump out the dirty ground water from the pool. Then fix the rip (again) and fill it with water. I'm going to try to time the draining, rip-fix, and refilling before the next rain to prevent more hydrostatic damage.

While draining some of the water from the pool, I was spreading the water out in various parts of the lawn. When I did this near the pool (dumb), I noticed water started strickeling through the pool-rip.

Question: Once I drain the old ground water out of the pool, then fix the rip, then fill up the pool with clean water..., will the pressure of the water in the pool be enough to keep any more groundwater from causing another rip or some other kind of damage to the pool? I'm thinking that when the snow melts, and that water does have to go somewhere. When it seeps into the earth and through the concrete, will it stay between the pool and the concrete, freeze, then damage something?
 
  #5  
Old 10-10-02, 09:51 AM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
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Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
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THAT DAM POOL

First with the wire to the pump.That could have been a UF wire and it can be in the ground thats ok.you did the right thing with new wire.

Id say yes have that pump running if it rains.When you have the pool full after the patch that will keep the other water out ok and the pool in the ground.
Not knowing the layout or the set up of your home or pool its hard here.Is there ,are can you, get all of that ground water to go some where else????????????? A ditch, pipe ,tile,all of the downspouts to the other side of the pool or home ?????????
Dont forget to blow out all of the drain lines to the pool then clean it and fill it ED
 

Last edited by Ed Imeduc; 10-11-02 at 10:26 AM.
  #6  
Old 10-12-02, 09:38 AM
corinth134
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Exclamation Lots of work!

OK, now I've got the patch drying on the pool and I'm draining out the pool. It's amazing how much junk collects in a pool. I found 2 buckets that had blown in, branches, trash (from one of the buckets), and a missing length of conduit. In the mean time, I've also been working on the pool pump and lines. Prior to starting to drain, I recirculated the pool water using the submersible sump pump to pump the water into the skimmer and got the Hayward Super Pump to pull from it through the filter and back to the return lines. I let this run for a full day in an attempt to help clean out the lines. I had to do a little plumbing to fix the return line as one of the previous owners had a monster pool hose attached to the return from the filter (the return line was just an open pipe sticking up out of the ground).

I've started moving rocks around my yard in an effort to help water drain away from the pool in all cases. Fortunately, it looks like no water drains from any other yard into mine!

From what I gather, shouldn't I be "closing" the pool now? The temperature is expected to get down to 32 degrees F Monday night. While I'm doing all this work getting this pool up and running, I may be running out of time this season. So now I'm looking at getting pool shock and antifreeze...? Does anyone know what is the cutoff temperature that the pool should be "closed?"

Other issues: crack in Hayward pump housing, a vast number of holes (115) in the safety pool cover.
 
  #7  
Old 10-12-02, 11:04 AM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
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Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 18,389
DAM POOL

Where to start: Id ask around there just what they do on the pools for the winter.up in MO. we have left the pools about 1/2 full
and a good cover on them.Drained the filter and the sump drains on all of the pumps. This should let the water in the pipes run back down in the ground.Does anyone around there know if they drained this pool or not in the winter?
Now that open return line with the hose ,that was to empty the pool.How it works.You have a return line that goes back to the pool now in this line you can put a T and a valve right by the filter.most of the time they put it on the "in"side of the filter.So like if i want to wash out the pool or take some water out.I would put that hose on the end of that open pipe turn the valve open.Run it to the street or drain or just out some where and turn the pool pump on.When your done close the valve and the water goes back to the pool return from the filter.Just put the hose way.
I didnt ask if you know about resins? Do you know if the pool is polyester or not? You can use polyester resin on poly but you cant use polyester resin on epoxy. But you can use epoxy on the polyester.Dont any of the pool.companys there have the part for the pump.Id look in the phone book for a pump co.Why dont you go to http://haywardpump.com and see the set up there for parts for the pump and filter it's good. Hope it all works for you. ED
 
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